Building a bandsaw mill

[Al_Smith]

Since this subject arose as a matter of fact I'm building a saw myself .The frame is a 27 foot 8"high  truck frame that once hauled NFL footballs all over the country .

Tracks are done ,carriage is done .What remains is the saw fixture itself which is rubber tire type that used to be a Ford Escort .

Power is a 30 some HP Wisconsin V4 .Clamping, log turning  and feed will be hydraulic .Power supplied either electric or by a 5 HP Briggs engine .I'm not certain about the set works just yet .

It will be transportable but not readily so because I have no intention of dragging a mill all over Gods' creation to saw up somebodies yard trees .I'm a nice guy just not that nice.

Now then up comes the big debate everyone wants to argue about ,electric power . You can look it up but it goes about like this ,with electric you can pull about twice or more as opposed to the same size gas engine .In other words a 10  electric will do as much as 20 gasser .

So here's how that goes .With a 10 HP three phase motor the motor will draw 25 amps on single phase 240 volts .Now you have to add in the converter load which is approx half or 12-15 amps .So you have approx 36-40 amps at 240 volts or 9,000 watts .Equating to 9 KWH at about 9 cents give or take a KWH .That's 81 cents an hour .

How much gasoline engine can you run for that amount of money ,your lawn mower eats up more than that .

[5quarter]

Al... Thats great news! How about starting a build thread with pictures? I'm interested to see The track set up and the progress on your saw head. once you got her up and running, you'll wonder what you ever did without one.  ;)
That Wisconsins a great motor, but electric is more efficient and hands down cheaper. in an 8-9 hour day, I'll use about 3 gallons of gas, but I shut the saw down when turning cants or anything else that takes more than a couple minutes. I also idle down when returning for the next cut. also, 81 cents per kwh is when your motor would be under a load, right? figure about 4 hrs of blade-in-wood and thats darn cheap.

[thecfarm]

By the way,I have just a regular bicycle brake for my throttle. I push it all the way when I'm cutting,wide open and than when I let go of the handle it drops back to a idle.No reaching for it,it's right there.

[Ljohnsaw]

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Great ideas, thanks.  I like the moveable aspect.  What did you use for the rail and the part hidden in the snow?  3x4x.250 angle?  Did you go with galvanized?  It looks a little grey in the picture.  I'm wondering about your "dog" that you use to secure the log.  You simply lift the round rod and then whack the bracket so it gets tight and cocked on the bunk?

I am just making a hobby mill - that is, I'm not a logger/sawyer so gross production is not an issue.  I've seen a couple of youtube's with electrics and using only 2 hp (4 hp gas equivalent?).  That affords the use of single phase.  I'm only cutting pine, no hardwood anywhere near me and about 18-24" DBH, making some beams and lots of flooring and wall planking - will I get reasonable performance with that?  Also, do any of you wish you had variable or easily adjustable speeds?  I think I could go as high as 5hp on 240 but I don't really want to go that big if I can get the job done.

[Ljohnsaw]

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So here's how that goes .With a 10 HP three phase motor the motor will draw 25 amps on single phase 240 volts .Now you have to add in the converter load which is approx half or 12-15 amps .So you have approx 36-40 amps at 240 volts or 9,000 watts .Equating to 9 KWH at about 9 cents give or take a KWH .That's 81 cents an hour .

How much gasoline engine can you run for that amount of money ,your lawn mower eats up more than that .

Nice electric rates you have there!  If I cut on my new property, I'm looking at about 13 cents/kwh.  If I cut at my home an hour away, I'm in Tier 3 & 4 (after my house load) so that 34 cents/kwh!!!   I'm hoping to use only 2hp so that's 1.920 kw. So .13 * 1.2 / hr is pretty cheap - $0.156/hr

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Initially, I will probably be taking the mill to the log.  I was planning on spacing the cross members about 4 foot on center (5 cross members) with an adjustable leg for each rail (10 legs), sound adequate or too much?  I know, never too much or too thick!

IMO, I think you would be better off to build in more bunks. 4 ft spacing is quite far apart. The commercial mills have their's much closer. I'm going with a 30" OC spacing on my build, with one at 24" OC. That may seem like an odd dimension, but modeling it with CAD has shown it to be an optimal spacing for my design and needs. It allows room for the turner, dogs, and toe-boards, but also gives support for varying lengths of logs up to 21'. The 24" spaced bunks are to cut short blocks, if necessary.

[thecfarm]

Here is a picture of the movable bunk,this shows how it sits in place to the frame.The bolt has to be tightened down. the bolt will rise it up against the rail.



 

This one shows the frame and rail. The rail is 3 inch angle stock. The rectangular tubing is 2X4. The cross member is 3 inch channel. All is ¼ inch stock. There is also one piece of channel on the bottom of the 2x4 too.



 

This is the log clamp. Hard to show how it works. But it works great.This shows it not clamped with a gap next to the green tubing that it slides on.



 

This shows it in use. The clamp can also move up too,about 6 inches. Note there is no gap next to the tubing. These really hold the log,cant in place.Just a push with the hand and they will stay where I put them.



 

Just so you know,this was made by a small metal shop in Maine. I only put the green stuff in thier hand to get it to my place.Thomas Band Saw Mills. It's a very simple mill. Just like my signature says,If I Don't Do It,It don't get done. Meaning the work on a manual mill. Good luck with your build. Make your head adjustable. Mine can be adjusted up and down,lowered on one side and it can be tipped up and down too.

[grweldon]

As "eastberkshirecustoms" suggested, you need to think some more about the bunk spacing also the ramp (to get the log on the bunks) spacing.  On my mill, the ramps are 6' apart... very inconvenient if you have a 4' or even a 6' log.  I'd make provisions to hold and to load a log as small as 3' long.  The 30" bunk spacing he mentioned seems like a good distance to me.  You will also gain some rigidity in the frame with that length of spacing.

If you want to be able to cut a 20' long timber, your frame will have to be longer than 20' by the width of your carriage, even wider to provide more room to load logs.  I know you mentioned this, but "thecfarm" questioned why you would need any longer of a bed.  Also, make sure you have provisions for loading a log this long.  Even though my mill can mill a 20' length, it only has two attachment points for the ramps, again, only 6' apart.  Typical Timberking shortsightedness.  It's a good mill and cuts good lumber, but the attention to detail in design was lacking.

As far as log leveling (known as toe boards), my mill has a manual version that didn't take much engineering at all.  It works OK, but again, some flaws in execution.  It's a modified auto screw jack with a piece of angle welded on top, parallel to the base.  The base of the jack fits in steel channel stock bolted to one of the bunks.  As long as there is weight on it, it works decent.  Trying to get it elevated to the log, the base moves around and even can come out of the channel.  I think you might do better off with a hydraulic jack with and attachment to fit over the screw at the top.  You would have to make sure you have enough clearance to stroke the pump, or better yet, mount a remote pump or buy a jack with a remote pump.  Either way, you will find it useful.  In practice, since I only have one toe-board at the end opposite the carriage, much of the time I end up with the log staged in the wrong direction.  Having one on each end would help with this situation.

[york]

Well,on my old TH,the bunks are 2'-0" o/c and i like it,would not want them any further apart-remember on longer mills,if the turner is centered for say 16 and 18 ft. logs,it will not work good for 8 and 10 ft.logs-the short logs will be further down the trackway and hard to see-guess why big mills may use pair of turners..

Al Smith,i am anxious to see what you come up with..albert

[francismilker]

One thing to think about,with whatever material you end up going with on the carriage, move around a lot when you transition from tacking it to welding it out.  If you spend a lot of time in one area welding a crossbrace totally out you'll likely end up with metal movement and it's near impossible to relieve stress and warps in bowed metal. 

To those talking electric, what kind of price tag would one be talking about to install a 10hp single phase 240v motor?  Also, with electric versus gas, is the HP basically rated the same apples for apples or do you get a different kind of torque when converting over?  I have a 10hp gas on my lt-10 but would like to have electric instead.  Just wondering.

[Ljohnsaw]

Well,on my old TH,the bunks are 2'-0" o/c and i like it,would not want them any further apart-remember on longer mills,if the turner is centered for say 16 and 18 ft. logs,it will not work good for 8 and 10 ft.logs-the short logs will be further down the trackway and hard to see-guess why big mills may use pair of turners..

Why is that?  Can't you just put the log anywhere you want on you mill?

[Ljohnsaw]

One thing to think about,with whatever material you end up going with on the carriage, move around a lot when you transition from tacking it to welding it out.  If you spend a lot of time in one area welding a crossbrace totally out you'll likely end up with metal movement and it's near impossible to relieve stress and warps in bowed metal. 

Thanks.  I've done a bit of welding in my past ranch life and had my share of oops!

To those talking electric, what kind of price tag would one be talking about to install a 10hp single phase 240v motor?  Also, with electric versus gas, is the HP basically rated the same apples for apples or do you get a different kind of torque when converting over?  I have a 10hp gas on my lt-10 but would like to have electric instead.  Just wondering.

From what I've read, you get twice the effective HP from electric over gas. YMMV

[bruce29]

 

  Building a good efficent bandmill is a big job. It is also a fun & rewarding job.I recently completed my sawmill. You need to think way ahead to what you will want on the mill( hyd clamps, turner, loader, etc) and make sure that you take all that into account when determing everything from metal thickness to bunk spacing.Its easy to overlook something & cause yourself work & grief. I took my time and was able to build something that operates like it should and something I am proud of.I will try to post picture.

 

[bandmiller2]

Bruce,professional job on that mill mate.Just a couple of comments.Go with 1/4" wall you can drill and tap to attach parts allowing you to easily make changes and improvements,and avoid welding stress.Electric is light years ahead of any outher power,and sure easy to start.You can buy whats called gun taps and power tap with a strong reversable drill.As I've said before a fella really needs to build two mills one to learn and one to perfect. Frank C.

[Al_Smith]

I'll get the pictures up in a day or so .It's been a slow process .Lot's of things like working 12 hour days ,building a home addition and things like that .

Now then ,set works .Jwood who posts occasionally and lives about 25 30 miles from me has a little mill with a link chain set works .I saw the mill once but can't for the life of me remember exactly how the thing worked .

It was slick,each click of the ratchet pawl mechanism was a quarter inch .A sight faster than using acme thread rods .

If I had the basics it would not be a big deal to use a reduction chain of two to one because I'll be lifting probably 700-800 pounds with the Wisconsin  4 and the saw assembley .

If anyone has a picture of that type set works I'd surely appriciate it because my pea brain just can't remember it .

Before I go much farther with that project I need to get my Monarch lathe back running which is also the reason I haven't done any hot rod saws lately .It's a Monarch 10" EE one of the most complicated DC drives I've ever seen .

[thecfarm]

Bruce,that looks like quite the mill you built. Hyds and all.

[grweldon]

Bruce,

Indeed that is a very nice mill.  Would you mind sharing pics of your log loader?  I want to add them to my mill and I'd like to see how you did it...

Bandmiller2,

While it IS done, it's not recommended to have thread length less than 1 1/2 the diameter of the screw being used.  Timberking does it with 3/16 thick tubing for the blade guides on my 1400.  I don't like it one bit, it's a weak point in the design.  At the very least they should have welded a nut on to the tubing, better yet, a piece of stock.  Then drill and tap the whole thickness.

With 1/4 thick tubing, I'd be afraid I would strip out the threads in the tubing, even with a 1/4" screw, especially coarse threads.  If you are in a design situation where you need more thickness on a piece of tubing for threads, a piece of round stock of suitable diameter welded to the tubing, then drilled and tapped is the correct way to achieve proper thread depth.

[bruce29]

I dont have any close up pictures of the log loaders at the moment but i will try to take a few. I built my log loader based on seeing the timberking loader on thier website.It seems to be a good solid design, wish I could take credit.

[Al_Smith]

A general rule of thumb regarding thread depth is 1 for steel 2 for cast iron and 4 for aluminum .1/4" wall tubing you could probabley get away with 1/4" 20 bolts which don't take much torque .

However I do agree that any load bearing fastener should have a welded plate then threaded.

Ha I've worked around an industrial environment so long I think every thing should be grade  8 but often it isn't neccessary .Old habits die hard  ;)

[bandmiller2]

Very true about tapping 1/4" tube.Use flanges to support weight when ever possible,or use more bolts. Frank C.

[grweldon]

Grade 8 bolts are not always desirable.  They are hard and brittle and prone to breaking when subject to vibratory stresses.  Grade 5 is much better in this application.

[Al_Smith]

You have a good point but like I say--old habits  ;).What ever you use do yourself a favor and Never -Seeze the fasteners .You'll thank yourself some day after it's sat outside in the elements and you can still get the bolts out .

I scolded a tree trimmer bud of mine for not using anti sieze on the grade 8's on a chipper which holds in the knives which I drilled out .Grade 8's mind you .The second time I did it  I reprimanded him severely .

[bandmiller2]

Never seeze is like mothers milk to a truck/equipment mechanic,it will reward you for years to come.If you have a driver that gives you a hard time put a tiny dab on the back of his shift knob,they will call him the silver streak. Frank C.

[Hilltop366]

Watching and learning.

Bruce29 nice looking build! I will look at all the pictures or video you or anyone else are willing to put up.

Never seeze is like mothers milk to a truck/equipment mechanic,it will reward you for years to come.If you have a driver that gives you a hard time put a tiny dab on the back of his shift knob,they will call him the silver streak. Frank C.

Don't forget the door handle!

[Al_Smith]

 :D Ha never-seeze on a knob .Try prussion blue sometime .It has to wear off .I can be a meanie at times just not that mean . ;)