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English oak?

Started by Delawhere Jack, October 17, 2012, 07:50:05 PM

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Delawhere Jack

Leaf sample from an oak tree. This came from a sprig growing from an otherwise clear trunk, about 5 feet off the ground. It is atypical for the tree, the leaves in the crown were much smaller. Best I can figure is English oak, quercus robus. But the backside of the leaf is pea green, and the books say the backside of English oak it white.

Tree is in Maryland, on the Delmarva peninsula. Sorry for the poor sample quality.



 

Clark

I don't know beans about English oak but a quick search told me it is part of the white oak group.  Your leaf appears to have enough of a point on each lobe that I would assume it is from a member of the red oak group.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

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WDH

Black oak, Quercus velutina.  A shade leaf.  In black oak, the sun leaves (those in the top of the crown that get full sunlight) are half as small as the larger, lower shade leaves.  If you look on the underside, it should be hairy on the midrib.  If you bore a little hole through the outer bark to the inner bark, the inner bark will be a bright orange. 

Black oak fools a lot of people.  It is a chameleon.  The different size and shapes of the sun leaves versus the shade leaves is confusing.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Delawhere Jack

Thanks guys. I would have gathered some acorns, but there are several different types of oak growing close together, so I couldn't be sure which tree they came from.

This is from a tree on one of my BIL's properties. It's 27"dbh, and goes dead straight and clear 60+ feet to the first limb. There's also another slightly smaller oak, and about 7-8 beautiful poplars. It' looks like I'll be able to get them fairly cheap. :)

SwampDonkey

English white oak leaves are a fare bit larger than American white oak leaves. I see kind of bristle tip (pointiness) on your leaf lobes, so rules out English oak or white oak.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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WDH

Back in the Dark Ages, I did a thread on identifying black oak.  Check out this link:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,25171.0.html

I did a series of posts on how to identify a number of species of oaks.  You can find them in the Tree ID section roughly about the same time and the date of the posts in the link, plus or minus  :)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

I've noticed that a few different species of oaks seem to have those differently-shaped shade leaves. It must just be an oak thing. Water oak is one of them.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

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WDH

Yes, very common in the oaks, especially some of the red oaks.  Variably consistent  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Aspen will increase the size of the leaves when they first sucker in full light. Big broad leaves much larger than normal. They will grow 4 or 6 feet on these wood factories. ;D In the shade they will be tiny leaves, not much bigger than blueberry leaves. Shape doesn't change much, just size.  But they respond much differently than many trees which make larger leaves in shade. ;D

Some years ago, Jeff posted a photo showing how huge the leaves are from root suckering. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: WDH on October 17, 2012, 08:58:02 PM
Black oak, Quercus velutina.  A shade leaf.  In black oak, the sun leaves (those in the top of the crown that get full sunlight) are half as small as the larger, lower shade leaves.  If you look on the underside, it should be hairy on the midrib.  If you bore a little hole through the outer bark to the inner bark, the inner bark will be a bright orange. 

Black oak fools a lot of people.  It is a chameleon.  The different size and shapes of the sun leaves versus the shade leaves is confusing.

I think Danny nailed it. That's a black oak.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Okrafarmer

Just curious. I know black oaks are marketed right in there with the other red oak species. But is there anything special about black oak wood, that would differentiate it from your other red oaks? For instance, coloring, pattern, strength, etc? Or is it just all pretty much the same?

I've also wondered about water oak, whether it is an inferior red oak in terms of strength. The places where the limbs join on seem more prone to breakage than many other kinds of oak.

WHD (I think was the one) mentioned a while back about differences between chestnut oak and white oak, in terms of the wood structure. I suppose that could make a difference in some applications. Just wondering if the various reds have things about them that make the lumber act or look different.

I'll have to go back and look at his threads about the different oaks.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

I was taught that the structural make up of the wood of the red oaks makes them indistinguishable.  There are some clues, though, as Ron Weinrich has pointed out before like color and knot formation.  Water oak is not weaker as far as I know, but it seems to get mineral streaks more than the other common commercial Southern red oaks from my experience.  It is the most common oak that I have sawed and dried.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

It's very common around here too, for some reason. It is the natural pioneer oak species for repopulating new open regrowth (along with other species such as sweetgum, tuliptree, yellow pines, red maple, and red cedar).

I will just never know why all these people planted them in their yards and on public properties 40-80 years ago. Did they not know about all the little pesky acorns and leaves that are highly difficult to rake up? Not to mention its tendency to shed big limbs and leaders during storms?  >:(
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

I think the small acorns are a key to their abundance.  Small acorns are easier to disseminate than big ones.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

You are probably right, and they sure do make a lot of them, too!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Dodgy Loner

My front and back yard are full of water oaks. For some reason, the squirrels love to chew the bark on the upper limbs. They will completely girdle the limbs, and when we get any kind of wind, they snap and my yard gets littered with water oak limbs. I would take them down, but then I would have no shade! One of them does have a couple of nice sawlogs in it, though ;D
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Okrafarmer

I have a 24" one beside my house that I keep thinking about cutting down. It's leaning away from the house, so I should be safe to drop it. It also has a decent saw log in it.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

SwampDonkey

You fellas have sawlogs in your eyes and sawdust in your nose. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

This is water oak.  The heartwood is more tan than pink or red in many cases, but there is a lot of color variation in the heartwood of water oak around here.

 



 

 

 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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