can anybody ID this

[pasbuild]

This plant is in Baraga County in the U P of Michigan, its next to a friends camp and he thinks its a non-native  can anybody tell him what it is?

  

  

 

[SwampDonkey]

Looks non native. But at the same time resembles witch hazel species hamamelis. Our native witch hazels are rugose and wavy edged and have seed pods, not fleshy fruit. Usually flower in late fall or early spring when everything else is dormant. I don't see them much, but I was on a site further south here in NB and it was mixed in with the beaked hazels.

I don't know what it is.

[WDH]

My first impressions were either witch hazel or beaked hazelnut.  The leaf margins are not right, though. 

[Dodgy Loner]

I looked at this last night but did not respond because I wanted to think about it some more. It's funny, my first impression when I saw the pictures was witch-hazel, but like the others said, the leaf margins just aren't right. I'm stumped as well.

[Sprucegum]

Well if the guys that usually know evrything don't know anything - I am proud to say I don't know anything either  8)  :D

I looks like one of those ornamental Chinese dollar trees.

[ely]

im going with elm, ;D
but i always say elm.

[DanG]

Elm is good.  It is easy to type, as is oak.  It may be an Oak Elm.

[Texas Ranger]

I'm with you fellas.

[WDH]

Sprucegum,

You are in good company  :D. 

[Clark]

I'm thinking leatherwood, Dirca palustris, it's got that look to me.  The real giveaway is to look on the stem and see if there are little ridges of bark that encircle the stem.  I'm pretty sure that they form a ridge every year when growth commences.  The other clue is if you try to break a twig off and it won't snap no matter how many times you twist it.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

I think in this shrub the leaves are finely serrate and round tipped. Leatherwood is pointy tipped and not serrated. Good stab at it though.  ;D

[Clark]

Good stab, SD?  It's an excellent stab because...(drum roll, please)...it's correct!

More seriously I don't see the pointed tips or fine serrations.  Check out wikipedia's pictures for leatherwood:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirca_palustris

The similarities are too many to ignore.  Maybe pasbuild could get back to us and see if some of the distinguishing features for leatherwood are present or not.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

Sorry, but I disagree with leatherwood. ;D It is close. In the drawing on WIki you will see leatherwood is pointed on the tip and leaf is entire. I can see fine teeth, but maybe I'm looking too hard at a blurred photo. :D

[Jeff]

I don't think it is leatherwood either.  Since I'm in the U.P., I've been on the look out for the plant over here on my daily hikes and hunts since "Thee Bob" posted it. So far I've not found anything similar.

[pasbuild]

Sorry for the poor picture (cheap phone) I didn't examine the plant any more then to just look at it and take the pic, the leaf appeared to have smooth edges and the bark was light in color. Matt, the owner of the camp is third generation of land management of 11,000 acres of forested property, he is out in the woods every day and has noticed this shrub recently in more then one place, the concern is weather this shrub is invasive and / or harmful to there land.

[Dodgy Loner]

I can see fine teeth, but maybe I'm looking too hard at a blurred photo. :D

I definitely don't see any teeth in pasbuild's photo. You need to squint harder, SD ;)

[SwampDonkey]

  Can see about anything when it's blurred.

Remember the movie "My Cousin Vinny"? The old lady in court on the witness stand could see lots of stuff when it was blurred. :D

[grweldon]

I love that movie!  One of my favorites!

Vinny in his very best New York City accent: "Now these two utes..."

Fred Qwinn (the judge): "What the hell is a ute?"

Vinny:  "Youths....that's what I said!  Utes..."

[WDH]

I can't see any toothyness, either. 

[Reddog]

Matt, the owner of the camp is third generation of land management of 11,000 acres of forested property

Bob, I would agree if Matt or Benny have not seen it before that is odd for it show up now.

They could start here and get it pushed up the ladder to the USDA for identifying.
Baraga County Extension
Courthouse Annex, 12 North 3rd Street
L'Anse, Michigan
49946-1002

906-524-6300

[isawlogs]

  I would go with leather wood also.

[Reddog]

Okay Bob,
After some digging it looks to be Glossy Buckthorn, Frangula alnus Mill

Two of my books show leaves that look like your pics. The ones on the usda page aren't as clear.

Looks to be moving Matt's way from Marquette. The second link shows the Mi map.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FRAL4

http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?state_name=Michigan&statefips=26&symbol=FRAL4

[SwampDonkey]

Here are some more leaf shapes of the glossy buckthorn from an Ontario site.

http://ontariotrees.com/main/species.php?id=2023

Seems Bob's leaves have very short petioles or almost none and the base is V shaped in comparison to buckthorn. Branching habit is different to. The buckthorn is more dogwood like. Bob's plant reminds me of hazel or fly honeysuckle branch habit. Still a mystery. ;D

[pasbuild]

I would have to agree with SD on this one, I saw this plant earlier this summer and the leaves were very much the light green that you see in my pic and they were not glossy and they don't come to a point like the buckthorn. I'll have Matt look at this post next time he's at the mill and add his input.

[Reddog]

Here is another thread on Glossy Buckthorn.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=45754.0

If you don't think that is what it is then the Ext agency is going to be the best bet to positive ID it.