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Ash storage question from the new kid on the block

Started by mudnut, October 11, 2012, 08:47:31 AM

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mudnut

Hey all, new to the forum and brand new to wood heating.

We bought a house last spring with an oil boiler ($3.11 a gallon when I called this spring so the tanks are still empty  ;D). The PO installed an insert into the fireplace in the living room and a good sized Brunco wood fired furnace in the basement. With the price of home heating oil I'm going to try to heat just with wood this year. I'm in North Central PA so it does get cold up here and I expect to go through quite a bit of wood.

So here's my question. The PO has a pretty good pile of old ash out by the driveway but to bring the ash drawer up the basement stairs, through the garage and across the drive every few days seems like a pain (yeah, I'm pretty lazy sometimes).

This may be a stupid question but again I'm new ::). I'm thinking about bringing a 55 gallon drum into the basement to keep the ashes in so that I only have to take it out when it gets full? I have access to good food grade drums with lids, I wouldn't even consider this without having a lid.

I have plenty of room in the basement (concrete floor and walls, 8 foot ceiling) so this thing wouldn't be near anything combustible and I figured with the lid it would be more like a large covered ash bucket and I wouldn't have to worry about carbon monoxide from any hot coals that may still be in the ashes. I would of course build a fire inside the drum before moving it to the basement for ash collection just to burn off the paint, I wouldn't want those fumes in the house if it started to cook off from hot ashes.

So... to the experts, is this a workable solution or stupid newbie idea?

Thanks in advance!

mudnut
"Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear...is less than one millionth of reality"

thecfarm

woodnut,welcome to the forum. I fill up a 50 gallon barrel too,outside.I use the ashes in my driveway. I don't see how you could carry it out even half full. I guess you could,but I would not want too. Maybe like trying to move a fridge,no place to grab on to and move it. I use to use a good steel bucket with a handle. I only had to empty mine out once every 2 weeks. The barrel is a good idea no matter what.You said you was new at burning wood too. Is your wood under cover? Meaning has it been drying all summer? I built about a 4 foot square wall around one of my basement windows to throw the wood into. I made the front so I could remove the boards as I took the wood out. Kept the wood and mess from going all over the place.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mudnut

Thanks for the reply thecfarm... I've got an appliance dolly so I'd strap the full drum to that and just pull it up the stairs, or have my 3% body fat track-star stepson do it  :D.

As for wood storage that is also in the basement (this is a good sized house so the ash drum wouldn't be near the fuel). I've got roughly 2 face cords left from last season that the POs left me, 4 more loads of somewhat "fresh" wood that is currently curing with the aid of a dehumidifier and a fan and I picked up around 3 loads from my neighbor who moved. That wood is currently tarped outside I just need to load it up and bring it across the street. His wood is a couple of years old so it's cured it just needs to finish drying out from being outside. Looks like the dehumidifier will be working overtime for the next few months.

New wood cribs will be built outside for curing next year, figured that I would buy wood this year, I've got a guy that has 2 and 3 year old stacks if I need some mid season. We own 10 acres of forest across the street from our house so sourcing wood of my own shouldn't be a problem but I need to get a good chain saw and splitter next Spring.

There is a LOT of logging up here too so buying a tri-axle isn't out of the question but if I can save some dough by cutting my own trees I will. I think a tri-axle is going for $750 or so, that's what I used to pay a month to heat the house that I used to live in so I'm liking this wood heat thing already!
"Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear...is less than one millionth of reality"

chainsawstrategies

I heat all with wood. 'Bout 9 cord p/yr. I take out the ashes every two days, trudge through the snow, rain whatever. As a 25+ year firefighter and current Chief I would recomed that you do not use a holding barrell in the basment. Also when you dump ash make sure it's 75+ feet from anything you dont want to burn. I have been to sevearl house fires started from people dumping ash against or very close to the hous, shed, barn etc.

I do use ashes in the driveway sometimes as well but not right up close to the house.

Good luck.

mudnut

Hmm... ok maybe a holding barrel outside near where the existing ash pile is would be a better idea. It's out by the tennis courts (don't let that fool you, in the 30s and 40s they were tennis courts, now it's partially fenced in weed covered black top LOL).

Hadn't considered using ashes on the driveway... we've got an asphalt drive, probably 300 or so feet from the street to the parking area. Might be a good source of traction after I plow this winter and I'd avoid having another pile of ash to deal with... any issue using wood ash on blacktop?
"Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear...is less than one millionth of reality"

thecfarm

Hot top should draw the heat and melt the snow and ice. I have a 500 foot dirt driveway that does not get much sun. I would use a fine coat on it,IF needed.Just remember too it may track into the house if too much is used. Keep a cover on the barrel too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

AvT

I have never done it but after googling there are many that recommend putting it in your garden or compost.  I think ii am going to research this further!
Wannabe sawyer, Cord King M1820 firewood processor Palax KS35 Ergo firewood Processor, 5403 John Deere, Bunch of other farm equipment,   LT70 Remote Woodmizer.  All good things but the best things in life are free.. If you don't believe me.. hold your breath for 2 minutes

sparky1

my folks always would dump the ash in the garden. but somertime we would clean the cow shed out and also put alot of manure in with the ash, then roto till it up really good. things grew good. I threw ash on my lawn and that was it. Well my lawn didnt grow so good.. infact all thats there  is the ash.. :D
Shaun J

brendonv

Why are you putting Ash on the driveway.  I think I missed a lesson.

I gotta say, how come you guys are cleaning out your stoves so much.  I had mine burning all last winter (Vermont Castings Vigilant), I can say I cleaned it out once.  No ash seems to build up, it's all just a powder that finds its way somewhere other than the bottom of the stove :D.  What am I doing wrong?
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

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clww

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, mudnut. :)
We always dump our ashes in the garden, the flower beds, or container gardens. When we get snow on the gravel driveway, that's where they go.
Do you have a form of backup secondary heating for when you are away from home? We will heat our log cabin with a wood burner in the basement, with electric baseboard heaters in all the rooms with plumbing as the secondary heat source.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Slabs

I take it you don't have a grate that keeps the coals out of the ash.  A 30 gallon metal drum would be an option for a lighter load and a couple of them might give the coals time to burn out.  The woodlot would be a good disposal after the coals are burned down unless the snow is there to douse them.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

thecfarm

I said every 2 weeks. I forgot. Been 4 years that I've done that. I have a OWB now. But I use to burn a lot of softwood too in the basement.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

wood monger

Ashes are surprisingly heavy, I would not want to drag a 55 gallon drum of them up the stairs. I have a small pedestal stove and usually clean out about once a week. My buddy has a big wood burning furnace in the basement and gets about 2, 5 gallon pals a week. Hot coals can stay hot in ash quite awhile, you need to be careful.

beenthere

I take out about 1 gal of ashes about every 5 days, and burn 5-6 cords of wood per winter. There are some hot coals in the bucket, so I set it out away from the house to cool before dumping in the woods.

I don't put any ash on the asphalt drive because it quickly ends up tracked into the garage on the tires and then finds its way into the house.

Give your 55 gal drum idea a try and see if you like it. If it works for you, you are good to go. I'm suspecting that you will change your plan but then no way to support that suspicion. No harm in trying.
I'd think you would only get a drum per winter. But everytime you open it to put more ashes in, there will be a fine cloud of ash dust floating in the air. Hard to do it any other way.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Logging logginglogging

Make sure that food grade drum is metal, and not a plastic one.....Otherwose you will have a fire on your hands.
I clean my outside boiler every couple weeks, and throw the ash in my driveway for traction in the winter.

mudnut

Quote from: clww on October 11, 2012, 06:52:09 PM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, mudnut. :)
We always dump our ashes in the garden, the flower beds, or container gardens. When we get snow on the gravel driveway, that's where they go.
Do you have a form of backup secondary heating for when you are away from home? We will heat our log cabin with a wood burner in the basement, with electric baseboard heaters in all the rooms with plumbing as the secondary heat source.


Thanks clww

We'll have lots of garden space next Summer for the majority of the ashes, great to balance the ph in the soil. As for secondary heating that will be an issue this season. We live just outside of town so no natural gas at our house. The original owners had lease gas that came down off of the hill back in the 30s and 40s, they used it for heat along with the incinerator that is now my furnace chimney but that well has been capped. Wouldn't want unscented gas running in the house anyway. We should have access to natural gas by next winter but my father-in-law is only a few miles away and on cold days can check on the stove and insert. No overnight family trips this season unless we have a dedicated house sitter. Wish I could teach the dogs how to load the stove LOL. Our other heating option is the oil boiler which won't run for long on the little bit of fuel oil left in the tanks and with gas coming out our way I won't spend the money to fill the tanks this year. We do have some electric baseboard style space heaters but I won't run them when nobody is home, just don't trust them that much.



Quote from: Slabs on October 11, 2012, 07:37:45 PM
I take it you don't have a grate that keeps the coals out of the ash.  A 30 gallon metal drum would be an option for a lighter load and a couple of them might give the coals time to burn out.  The woodlot would be a good disposal after the coals are burned down unless the snow is there to douse them.


Hey Slabs, yeah there's a rolling grate at the bottom of the firebox so the big stuff stays out of the ash tray but some of the smaller coals end up in there and a house fire is right below drowning on my don't want to do list so I don't want to take any chances with potentially hot ash.



Quote from: wood monger on October 11, 2012, 08:56:50 PM
Ashes are surprisingly heavy, I would not want to drag a 55 gallon drum of them up the stairs. I have a small pedestal stove and usually clean out about once a week. My buddy has a big wood burning furnace in the basement and gets about 2, 5 gallon pals a week. Hot coals can stay hot in ash quite awhile, you need to be careful.


I figured that, if I went with a holding barrel in the basement, I would strap it to the moving dolly and drag it up the steps when it needed to be emptied or at the end of the season whichever came first, but then I've still got a heavy load to deal with. Going to look for a steel 5 gallon bucket with a lid and use that to put the ashes in before I take them out. The ash pan from the stove is pretty long and a pita to carry up the stairs. Steel bucket with a handle seems like a much better idea. I'll use the 55 gal drum outside to keep the ashes in, that way they stay dry and a lot lighter when it's time to empty the barrel.


Quote from: wood monger on October 11, 2012, 08:56:50 PM
My buddy has a big wood burning furnace in the basement and gets about 2, 5 gallon pals a week. Hot coals can stay hot in ash quite awhile, you need to be careful.

My furnace is pretty good sized too and after 4 burnings I've probably got 5 gal + to take out. The hot ash thing is what I was worried about so I think I'll go with the drum outside and just take the ashes out when the pan get's full. Better safe than sorry (oh God I just turned into my mother LMAO)


Thanks for the comments and the information. I've been reading forum posts and have already learned a lot about this subject. I've always wanted a wood stove, just never thought that it would be my sole source of heat but then again I never thought that I would move from Florida to Pennsylvania either so...



Quote from: Logginglogginglogging on October 12, 2012, 08:32:38 AM
Make sure that food grade drum is metal, and not a plastic one.....Otherwose you will have a fire on your hands.
I clean my outside boiler every couple weeks, and throw the ash in my driveway for traction in the winter.


No worries, it'll be a steel drum, plastic ones are great for water storage but you're right, they wouldn't hold up to hot ash very well.
"Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear...is less than one millionth of reality"

tpyounome

Mudnut
I used 2, 22 gallon galvanized trash cans with lids.  Once one gets full it is easy to carry upstairs. 
Be aware wood ashes have a high alkaline level.  Too much will make the soil PH rise.  Lawns and most garden plants like a neutral to slightly acidic level.  (7.0 is neutral)  You need a soil test to determine your PH. 
I would recomend only applying ashes every 4 or 5 years.  And spreading it only 1/4 deep.

chainsawstrategies

When you think about it wood heat is a pain in the ash. But it is one more time that the wood heats you. By the time I dump ashes I figure I've been warmed by the stuff at least 4 times. I guess I've been doing it for so long I just dont notice.

Al_Smith

We only go through about 4-5 cords per season with a Lopi glass front insert .I'd guess I only shovel out the ashes every 10 days to two weeks .It's usually about two coal buckets worth .In an entire season it wouldn't fill a barrel up  .
I can't speak about wood furnaces or OWB's because all I have is a stove and it pretty much burns the wood ash to powder.
Wood ash btw is alkaline .I guess some people dump them on the garden which I never had much luck with because it hindered the plant growth .

thecfarm

Al,my Heatmor ashes comes out just about like flour. If I start digging around some than some pieces will fall through the grates. I don't use my ashes in the garden at all.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

tcsmpsi

I have a Drolet Baltic woodstove.  It has no grate, but a plugged hole for emptying ash into the ash pan underneath.  I let that set until close to time to empty ash from the stove again, then go empty it in different places.  I have a small burn area fenced and kept free of combustible matter around it.  Primarily, I empty it there. 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

talldog

Hope this is not getting off track too much. I plow driveways for extra income,about 35 or so. I keep a 5 gallon bucket of wood ashes with a cover on it right in the back of the truck. Of course these are long spent and cold. I can't count the number of times they have gotten me out of a mess in the middle of the night. Sometimes one tire will go slightly too far in the ditch or over hard frozen snow ice. I have learned to not be pig headed and stop before I get in too deep. I just sprinkle some wood ashes around all the tires and it's like magic. It's kind of like driving on bare pavement for for a second. They are good for something!

Al_Smith

The stove I have is strictley made for wood thus it has no grates .It is fire brick lined floor and sides up to about 8 inchs .As such if the coals get trapped under ash they will remain hot for hours some times over a day because basically no air can get to them .Fact we've been away for the week end and of course the fire goes out .Just stir the ash ,toss in some kindling and have a fire going in less than 10 minutes usually .

For all intents nothing comes out but powder if I shift through the ash .A few live  ones but not too many .

36 coupe

Go down to the hardware store and buy an ash pail with a cover,Ive put ashes on the garden for 45 years.Too many nuts put ashes in cardboard boxes and plastic pails.Out on the porch or in the garage.They have a fire soon after.I pick rainy days   to put ashes on the garden when there is no snow cover.Make a hole in the snow and dump the ashes in then cover them with snow.In dry conditions bring a pail of water out first to soak the ashes when they are dumped.Heating with wood aint easy.I would like to see you lug a 55 gallon drum  of ashes up a  stairway.

muddstopper

I use a 5gal metal bucket that has a metal lid held in place with a metal band to carry ashes. I do put my ashes on the garden.

Ashes contain about 10% potash, 1% phos, and 25% calcium carbonate. There are also the micronutrients, iron, boron, manganees, zinc and copper. Ash will also contain the heavy metals, nickel, chrome, lead. There are no gaseous nutrients, such as nitrogen, in the ash. The gases are burnt off and released in the smoke. The calcium carbonate in the ash is whats responsible for raising the ph levels in the soil. Just because your soil might already have high ph levels is no reason to not use ash in the garden. Ph is a measure of hydrogen in the soil and that value can be driven by over 100 other carbonate type materials. If your ph levels are really high, (over ph8), Calcium carbonate will help lower the the soil ph level. If your soil has high a ph, but still has a low calcium percentage, ash can help provide the needed calcium for good plant growth. The only real way to tell is thru soil sampleing. Now, for those that will say that calcium levels arent that important, please explain why the ash from a burnt tree will contain 25% calcium carbonate and only 10% potassium or 1% Phos. I always say, if its there and the plant can get it, you can grow a crop, but if it aint there, and you dont put it there, then the crop cant get it.

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