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Stinkin' 026!

Started by martyinmi, October 06, 2012, 08:25:50 PM

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martyinmi

I recently put a new piston,pin, and jug on my brothers old 026. It runs exceptionally well. It seems to have about the same power as my 024 AVS, maybe a little more. I've ran about 4 or 5 tanks of fuel through it so far. The issue I'm having with it is that it runs exceptionally rich-as in smoking so bad at WOT it gives me a headache after 1 tank of fuel. I've turned the "H" screw all the way in and it doesn't make any difference in the way it runs. If I turn the "L" screw in any more than it is, it doesn't like to stay running. This smokey-rich issue is the same issue my brother had with it before he had a different adjustable carb installed. What throws me off is that it doesn't have much of that "blubber" that you'd expect from a saw running too rich at WOT and under a load. Not real bad anyway.

Any ideas?

AND.....

My BIL gave me his dad's old Mc Culloch. I'll pick it up tomorrow. He can't remember the model number of it, but he did say it was heavier than my 045(which used to be his before my brother bought it),has a 30 something inch bar, and more power.

That'll make 5 Stihls (045,310,025,024AVS, and170),3 Macs (610,1010, and whatever the one is I'll pick up tomorrow),and a Poulan wood Shark!

Can a man ever have too many saws?

EDIT: The saw that my BIL gave me was not a Mac. It is a Homelite 1050 Automatic with maybe a 26" - 28" bar. I'll try to get it going tomorrow night. 
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ladylake


Could be a little crud in the needle valve or adjusted too high.  Also if the diaphram gets too stiff it could cause that. Being a old saw try a carb kit and good cleaning.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

martyinmi

I tore the carb apart and thoroughly cleaned it. It did not help. I was actually wrong about the power comparison between the 024 AVS and the 026. The 24 has quite a bit more power.
The L screw needs to be turned out 2 full turns for the saw to idle properly as well as come off idle properly.
The H screw does make some difference, but not much at all.

Could it be that the crank seals are bad?
Might that explain why the L needs to be so far out for it to idle properly?

I'm just waiting for Al to give me the go ahead to pull the flywheel and the clutch off and replace them!
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ladylake


If the crank seals were leaky you would need to have the high opened up more that normal not closed all the way, if the carb swaps out between thhe 024 and 026 try swapping them.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Al_Smith

Normally if any thing a bad crankcase seal should make it run lean .

If the high speed jet has little or no effect it could be assumed that for some reason it's blocked .Best thing to do with that carb is completely disassemble it and install a new rebuilt gasket and diaphragm kit .

Yeah I've heard the "I cleaned it out " a million times which is only effective in about 10 percent of the cases .

I've preached 'til I'm blue in the face that cab innards just get stiff and you'll spend more time making love to the thing that just ponying up the 10 bucks for a carb kit and be done with it .On that about ten percent believe me .The other 90 fiddle,twiddle and cuss then they buy a new carb kit and no more is heard on the subject unless they install it incorrectly .
FWIW unless an 024 is exceptionaly powerfull an 026 should out run it .Rarely would that happen although I do admit the little 24 is a neat little saw .Got one myself .

martyinmi

DanG it Al, I was hoping you'd tell me to put in the crank seals!

I'll get a new carb kit tomorrow and put it in and give an update.

Thanks gentlemen
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AdkStihl

"The L screw needs to be turned out 2 full turns for the saw to idle properly as well as come off idle properly.
The H screw does make some difference, but not much at all"


That tells me the carb has to be adjusted rich to compensate for an abundace of air entering the crankcase somewhere. Have the saw vac / pressure tested. Another thing to do is replace the fuel & impulse lines. There is a reason why the piston and cylinder needed to be replaced. By simply repairing / replacing youre just bandaiding the problem at hand.
No way should an 024 out perform an 026 unless its been ported.
J.Miller Photography

Al_Smith

On a really badly leaking seal no amount of richening up the carb will help it . It might start out okay on a cold start but once it gets into the cut that seal will leak like a sieve as it warms up and usually it will just run out lean and about die on the vine so to speak .

On the other hand more times than not if it is a seal it will most likely be on the clutch side which is not too bad to change .

So rebuild the carb and change the seals .If one doesn't get it the other one should .

joe_indi

Check the flywheel, it could have a shorn key.
Joe

martyinmi

Sooooo....

   I bought a carb kit and installed it, fired it up and it runs exactly the same. I put a new crank seal on the clutch side, fired it up and it still runs exactly the same.

I did a compression check on it and at WOT it makes 90 psi. My 024AVS makes 117 psi. I just put a new piston and cylinder kit in it(026) from baileys a few weeks ago. With a half dozen tanks of fuel ran through it it ought to be fairly broke in by now, shouldn't it? I'd have thought that with the .7 mm overbore kit in it that it would have more compression than my 30 year old bone stock 024.

It runs the best with the H screw all the way in and the L out just shy of 2 full turns, but at WOT in a cut it is still getting too much fuel. It has that "blubber" sound a too rich 2 stroke has. I can lean it down by means of the L screw while in a cut and it picks up power, but then it won't idle when the cut is complete. I would compare the power it makes to my little 170, maybe a touch more.

I don't have the proper tool to pull the flywheel off to replace that seal, but from what I'm hearing and reading, they don't typically go bad before the clutch side does anyway, right?

I'm not going to give up, but I'm sorta at a loss right now. Any Ideas?

It would be nice if Al lived a little closer. I hear he'll work for beer!

On a side note-
The 1050 Automatic Homelite I got from my BIL makes a little over 150 psi. Is that common for those older saws from that era?

Thanks

Edit 6:28 pm: I measured the opening on the filter side of both of the carbs. The 026 was .533 and the 024 was .503. Should there be that much difference?
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Al_Smith

You're confusing the 'ell out of me .First how does one take a compression reading at WOT ? WOT means running wide open no load not opening the throttle pulling it over and taking a comp reading .

If you only have 90 PSI either the gauge is wrong or you have serious problems or you snapped a ring when you put it together .Something is amiss .You didn't put the piston in backwards did you?


martyinmi

I just meant that I held the throttle wide open so it get all the air it needed while I did the test. That's the way we do it when we build a performance pulling engine.

As far as putting the piston in backwards....well....I don't think I did. I followed the directions that came with the kit.

What kind of compression should it have?

I did manage to get the flywheel off. The seal LOOKS perfect. I did not replace it yet. I wanted to get some feedback from you guys first.
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Al_Smith

Well with a new piston and cylinder I'd think it at least should be making 140 or better PSI probabley more .Even those 40 plus year old McCullochs I have will pump out more than that .

The piston has an arrow on top of it that goes towards the exhaust port .You should have one ring pin on each side of the intake port if it's installed properly not facing the exhaust side .

I have no idea about the piston skirt design but if it has one side more narrow than the other it will blow right back through the intake when the piston goes down or blow out the exhaust in some cases if it's real drastic .Some you can turn some around and some you can't and I have no idea in this case simpley because I can't see through cyber space as much as I might want to . :D


Sooo if that gauge is correct it might not be a bad idea to lift the cylinder and see what the deal is .

Look on the bright side before too long you'll be able to field strip a small Stihl in your sleep you do it often enough . ;) Now if you did screw up remember only people who do nothing don't mess up .Most of us who are man enough to admit it have done so often .

martyinmi

I'll pull the jug and see what's what. Could a backwards piston make the compression stay that low? I guess I'll find out. I am certain I didn't break a ring. I used a couple of credit cards to compress the rings and it went together easily.

The 90 psi on the 026 was with a warm engine. The 024 was cold.

I'll let ya know in the next couple days.

Thanks
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ladylake

[ Now if you did screw up remember only people who do nothing don't mess up .Most of us who are man enough to admit it have done so often .
[/quote]

   Some of your best advice Al.     Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

AdkStihl

Both of those saws should be blowin at least 140-150psi minimum.
No need to hold throttle open while doing compression test. There is plenty atmosphere getting to the cylinder throught the exhaust.
If there is a decomp on the 026, check that it isnt leaking.
J.Miller Photography

martyinmi

Pulled cylinder off today and put back together. Everything is oriented properly. Still runs rich in a cut. There is no decompression on this saw. I'm going to put a different carb on it today and see what happens. Dealer has a NOS to fit an 024 super I'm going to try. $45 sound reasonable?

Every time I pull the fuel line off the carb, fuel squirts out and continues to drizzle out very slowly for a minute or so. The amount drizzled out can't amount to more than 1/4 teaspoon. Is this normal?

I hooked my compression gauge directly up to my air compressor. The gauge on the compressor reads 8 lbs. higher.

I'm starting to really dislike this saw!
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martyinmi

Went to my local Stihl dealer after lunch today to pick up a new carb. Turns out he didn't have the one I needed. I explained to him what the saw was doing and what all I'd done already(seals,carb kit). He said it sounded like a high speed nozzle check valve. He told me to swap carbs from the 24 to the 26 and try it. I told him I didn't like the idea of robbing Peter to pay Paul(think Social Security that I'll probably never receive!), but he reminded me that a few years earlier I brought my 24 in with similar symptoms and that he had put a new nozzle check valve in it and it took care of the problem. I swapped carbs and it runs better, but still not right.
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martyinmi

Well, I've ran 6 or eight tanks of fuel through this stooopid DanG saw and it's still not running good at all. My 30 year old 024 AVS will eat it up and spit it out. I took it to my local dealer on Friday and had him do a compression check with his tester and it has just shy of 145 psi. Mine says 105 now. I left it with him to fiddle with. He's going to put a new intake boot on it and then check for crankcase leaks. It'll be another $45 bucks.
1) Paid $50.00 for saw.
2) piston & sleeve & seals  $125.00
3) impulse and fuel lines & filter  $12.00
4) carb kit and new nozzle/check valve $22.00
5) new intake boot and labor from dealer $45.00

Total invested: $254.00

If it still doesn't run right when I get it back from the dealer, I WILL run over it with our largest tractor at work!

That feeling will be PRICELESS!

Edit: I think I need a new gauge for my compression tester!
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Al_Smith

 :D Marty ,Marty ,Marty ,it's just a saw ,simmer down now .

I don't think  it will fix it to run over it with a tractor .What happens if the saw punctures the tractor tire out of revenge for ill treatment .Try explaining that one to the boss .

mad murdock

I just wanna know what model Mac you most recently acquired? It certainly can't be said that the 026 issues aren't solved for lack of trying! Whew, I think I'd have sold it for a parts saw by now, how frustrating!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

martyinmi

My newest to me Mac is a mini mac 30 from eBay. I now have 2 mini's. The next newest to me Mac is the 430 VC with a 12" bar. That quickly became my favorite limbing saw. 8) Don't need the Poulan Wood Shark or the MS 170 anymore.
I sold my MS 170 a few days ago for $140.00(it was less than a year old) and bought what appears to be a very low hour 923 XL Homelite for $130.00. What a cutting machine! splitwood_smiley I put a 25" Stihl bar on it with a chisel skip chain. My friend at work finally got his Jonsered 2172 back from the dealer and he went with me yesterday evening to try both saws out on a 25" Ash. That 40 year old Homelite will smoke the new Jonsered badly!
I took my 923 & 550 Homelites and my Stihl MS 310 with me this morning to finish cutting up the tree. Poor little muffler modded 310 doesn't stand a chance against the Homelites. whiteflag_smiley The two Homelites appear to be about neck and neck for power, even though the 550 has a few more cubes.
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ladylake

 How many cc are those Homelites?   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

martyinmi

The 550 is 84 cc's and the 923 is 82 cc's. My buddies J-red is 72 cc's.

The 923 is so loud that my ears are still ringing. I'll wear plugs AND muffs next time out with it. ;)
No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

Al_Smith

Marty ,Marty ,Marty .You been fiddling with this little 026 since the first of Oct and and now you skew off how and 84 cc Homelite will out cut a 72 cc J-Red like it's a big surprise and don't even mention the little Stihl .

Explain to me how someone can weld up the crankshaft of a 40 year old tractor and weld together connecting rods but can't make a simple chainsaw run ,especally a Stihl .

Fess up Marty now are you spinning a tale ? :D

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