Dealing with employees who quit

[Ken]

Last Thursday while away on an unsuccessful moose hunting trip I had a text message from my harvester operator of nearly 1 1/2 years indicating that he was giving his 2 weeks notice.  Over the last several months his work ethic has been less than stellar. He openly admitted to me that he was not feeling very motivated lately.  I felt it was pretty hard for me to bait him with more money or benefits without him showing an improvement first.

I expected him to show up Monday and my plans were to pay him for the 2 weeks and send him on his way.  Fortunately for my bank account he did not show. 

That being said what would be the best way to handle a situation like this?  I have been very fortunate that the vast majority of my employees have been with me for many years.   As many of my jobs require seasonal workers it is quite easy to not invite someone back for the next year if they are more effort than they are worth.

Cheers
Ken

[just_sawing]

When he comes back broke he starts at the bottom and works back up.
Any Lip to me of disgruntle he is fired on the spot in fromt of everybody, You will be amazed on how many other problems go away.

[Dan_Shade]

is not having him now costing you money?

the first half of your post leads me to believe that you won't be missing him. 

[Mooseherder]

Was his job performance ever addressed over this time?
Periodic written Performance reviews have their benefit and let's both parties air out and discuss what they need out of the work relationship.
I always subscribe to praise in public and constructively criticize in private.
Embarrassing someone in front of others isn't professional.  Sounds like you were doing a nice thing by paying him without having to work.  He probably will find out later the grass isn't always greener.

[sawguy21]

MH would you please give my boss a call? He could learn from you.

[redprospector]

Sound's to me like you handled it about right.
The hardest part of being in business is dealing with employees.
It seems that you have been blessed with a good crew that sticks with you. In the last 2 1/2 years I went through 24 people, trying to keep 2 working with me.
I actually had a guy that told me that he just couldn't get motivated. I told him that was ok, but before we get mad at each other over our difference in expectations, maybe he should try to find something else to do that he could get excited about. He stayed till Friday...I haven't seen him since.
I have heard rumors around town that I am a slave driver. Don't you believe a word of it.  :D

Andy

[Okrafarmer]

Some people are just going to be poor employees no matter what. But when dealing with employees, it's important to remember there are three categories of motivation a person can have in any given job.

1. The compensation. This includes pay, benefits, perks, etc.

2. The fulfilment. This means the work itself is rewarding (fun, satisfying, interesting, etc)

3. The treatment. How they are treated by boss, management, coworkers, clients, etc.

In order for someone to stay at any job, they have to have enough of at least one of the three things, in order to stay.  Some times people are desperate, and they will put up with things they normally would not.

Let's look at some scenarios.

1. After being out of work for three months, George found a job helping a mortician. He hates the work, it is disgusting, freaks him out, and gives him nightmares. But he feels he has to do something to support his wife and kids, and he earns more here than he could make flipping burgers or stocking shelves. The mortician he works for is friendly and patient. George sticks with it for three years until another opportunity comes up where he is able to move into a promising sales position.

2. Karen is fifteen, and loves horses. Unfortunately, she and her parents live in a small high-rise, and neither the facilities nor their budget allows for a horse. Karen spends as much time as she can, hanging around the stables a mile away from home. The owner sees her obvious love for horses, and tells her that if she wants to hang around, she needs to make herself useful. So she mucks out stalls, digs fence posts, stacks hay, and so on, just so she can be around horses. The owner is aloof and not real friendly, but Karen puts up with that and the hard work, just to hang around the pintos and palominos.

3. Mark started working at the local fast food joint when he was in high school, because his parents thought he ought to work. Within the first few days of work, Mark had hit off well with everyone-- the boss, the managers, the co-workers, and the customers. The managers and boss were great-- they collaborated to make an awesome work environment. Everyone had fun and enjoyed each other's company. All through college, Mark continued to work there, even though people told him he ought to find a higher-paying job. When he graduated college, his boss asked him if he wanted to become a manager. He said yes, he'd like nothing more. The pay wasn't as great as he might make if he had followed his mom's advice and become a paralegal, but he loved his boss and co-workers, and continued on there for the rest of his life.

So you see, there are three things that motivate people. If you want good people to stay, you have to make sure that their motivations are fed. A good worker that you have trained for several years is worth a lot more money than a newbie off the street. You have to get inside the mind of each of your people and find out what makes them tick. If they are a good, or even an adequate worker, you will do well to keep them, rather than having to train replacements every few weeks.

So-- long before they get bored, anxious, antsy, frustrated, etc., you need to actively meet their needs. Be sure they are receiving a good compensation, help them to understand and appreciate the value of their work, and treat them with respect and appreciation.

Besides that, you also should motivate your workers by setting goals and providing rewards for achieving these goals. This can be done in many ways, including:

1. Profit-sharing
2. Bonuses
3. Commissions for sales leads
4. Flexibility with scheduling
5. Occasional day off with pay
6. Pizza party
7. Fun trip, night out, etc.
8. Upgrades in equipment, tools, office furniture, break room, etc.
9. Words of appreciation

[giant splinter]

Ken
It looks like he solved the problem for everyone on his own, you owe him only for the time he worked and nothing more. Just be nice when he shows up to get paid and hopefully you have an operator filling his spot before he gets there. Chances are he would never have worked out anyway when you consider the way he bailed out. Sounds like you are treating your employees right and I would bet he will not be missed by anyone there.
Hope your next trip will be a perfect one.

[redprospector]

Some people are just going to be poor employees no matter what. But when dealing with employees, it's important to remember there are three categories of motivation a person can have in any given job.

1. The compensation. This includes pay, benefits, perks, etc.

2. The fulfilment. This means the work itself is rewarding (fun, satisfying, interesting, etc)

3. The treatment. How they are treated by boss, management, coworkers, clients, etc.

In order for someone to stay at any job, they have to have enough of at least one of the three things, in order to stay.  Some times people are desperate, and they will put up with things they normally would not.

Let's look at some scenarios.

1. After being out of work for three months, George found a job helping a mortician. He hates the work, it is disgusting, freaks him out, and gives him nightmares. But he feels he has to do something to support his wife and kids, and he earns more here than he could make flipping burgers or stocking shelves. The mortician he works for is friendly and patient. George sticks with it for three years until another opportunity comes up where he is able to move into a promising sales position.

2. Karen is fifteen, and loves horses. Unfortunately, she and her parents live in a small high-rise, and neither the facilities nor their budget allows for a horse. Karen spends as much time as she can, hanging around the stables a mile away from home. The owner sees her obvious love for horses, and tells her that if she wants to hang around, she needs to make herself useful. So she mucks out stalls, digs fence posts, stacks hay, and so on, just so she can be around horses. The owner is aloof and not real friendly, but Karen puts up with that and the hard work, just to hang around the pintos and palominos.

3. Mark started working at the local fast food joint when he was in high school, because his parents thought he ought to work. Within the first few days of work, Mark had hit off well with everyone-- the boss, the managers, the co-workers, and the customers. The managers and boss were great-- they collaborated to make an awesome work environment. Everyone had fun and enjoyed each other's company. All through college, Mark continued to work there, even though people told him he ought to find a higher-paying job. When he graduated college, his boss asked him if he wanted to become a manager. He said yes, he'd like nothing more. The pay wasn't as great as he might make if he had followed his mom's advice and become a paralegal, but he loved his boss and co-workers, and continued on there for the rest of his life.

So you see, there are three things that motivate people. If you want good people to stay, you have to make sure that their motivations are fed. A good worker that you have trained for several years is worth a lot more money than a newbie off the street. You have to get inside the mind of each of your people and find out what makes them tick. If they are a good, or even an adequate worker, you will do well to keep them, rather than having to train replacements every few weeks.

So-- long before they get bored, anxious, antsy, frustrated, etc., you need to actively meet their needs. Be sure they are receiving a good compensation, help them to understand and appreciate the value of their work, and treat them with respect and appreciation.

Besides that, you also should motivate your workers by setting goals and providing rewards for achieving these goals. This can be done in many ways, including:

1. Profit-sharing
2. Bonuses
3. Commissions for sales leads
4. Flexibility with scheduling
5. Occasional day off with pay
6. Pizza party
7. Fun trip, night out, etc.
8. Upgrades in equipment, tools, office furniture, break room, etc.
9. Words of appreciation

My, my, how things have changed.
We have totaly different views on employment (of corse that could be why I go through so many people  :D).
I believe that work ethic is instilled in each of us from a young age, and should be nurtured by our parents and others untill we are young adults. I was raised to believe that when I agreed to go to work for someone that I owed them the very best that I could do (quality, and efficency) for the wage that was agreed upon, whether it was $5 or $50 an hour I should give them all that I had to give.
If a person dosen't have a good work ethic, it doesn't matter how much you pat them on the back, or kick them in the butt, they just won't work out.
I was also taught that every job was only as challenging as you yourself make it. In even the most menial, tedious job your mind can be working trying to figure out a way to make it a little faster, safer, more efficient, etc.
There are exceptions to the rule, but generally if you treat your job with respect, your boss will treat you with respect.
It is not the bosses job to keep the employees entertained so that they will keep gracing the company with their presence. As an employee, one should not expect to recieve a raise as incentive to do more work, one should do more work in expectation of compensation. Not much makes me madder than to hear someone say something like; You don't pay me enough to do that, or; That's not in my job description.

Oh, and no one has thrown me a "pizza party" since I was in Jr High.  :D

Please don't take this personal. We just have different views of employment. And I know...I'm an old dinasaur in my way of thinking.

Andy

[Ianab]

The views aren't mutually exclusive.

What Okra is talking about is how do you KEEP the good workers?

Even with the best work ethic in the world, if you under pay and treat them like serfs, they are only going to stay until a better opportunity comes along. Sure I will fulfill my end of the bargain, and work to the best of my ability, for the agreed wage. Until I find something better, then I'm out of there. Finding and training my replacement is your problem, not mine,

Sometimes it's about money...
Sometimes it's about the actual job, something comes up that you WANT to do more, even if the money isn't as good.
Sometimes you just like working for an outfit, even if you could earn more elsewhere.

This shows up in a lot of the people here. they aren't usually in it just for the money. They like the work, the people they deal and work with etc.

Understanding that might help you keep the better workers? The ones with no work ethic? You can pick pretty quick, just let them wander off to be someone elses problem.

Ian

[Dan_Shade]

monetary compensation is generally viewed as a sustainer, not a motivator.

[ely]

if you keep the old dinasaur way of thinking in todays marketplace, you stand to lose alot more money to the training of new hires than you realize. if you figgure a large turnover then figure in the training involved it gets pricey quick.

there is middle ground to be had by both partys, short of catering to and babying employees.

[ely]

i do agree wholly on your view of work ethic,andy.

[barbender]

RedProspector, if you have went through 24 guys in two years, I have to wonder where you are getting your help from and how much you are paying. For example, if you are expecting experienced equipment operators for $7.50/hr,(not saying that's what your paying) if you happen to find someone to work they are going to have issues that keep them from working somewhere else that is paying the going rate for that trade, i.e. no drivers license, criminal background, drinking and drug problems or just a bad attitude. There are still people out there with a good work ethic, they may be gettin rarer but they are out there. 

[thurlow]

I expected him to show up Monday and my plans were to pay him for the 2 weeks and send him on his way.  Fortunately for my bank account he did not show. 

That being said what would be the best way to handle a situation like this?  I have been very fortunate that the vast majority of my employees have been with me for many years.   Cheers Ken

Pay him what he's owed and let him go (I've carried their last check to them when I knew they'd be at home).  It's been my experience that if you ask/beg someone to stay when they're wanting to leave, it never works out;  they may stay for the short term, but you'll just have trouble down the road.  btdt

[240b]

Fact is some people shouldn't be employers.

[ely]

and a good many more wont make employees ;D

[bedway]

Over my years as an employer, and we payed fair wages, i cant ever say ive seen an employees bad work ethics or productivity improve once given a pay increase. Have you ever heard someone say their payed to much? ;D Whether you make 15 or 50 dollars an hour we all think were under paid.

[drobertson]

When someone quits, in there mind, and waits till you are gone, this tells me that communications were never there. He wanted to talk, I am sure. If he has been an asset, I would discuss what is going on, and move on. Being a boss is every bit as hard as an employee, even harder, facts be known. But an employer is not one without employees.  Some folks have issues and find it hard to talk about. Pride is a factor, on both ends, It does seem like hunting trips, any trip as far as this goes, when the boss leaves, leaves a bad taste in the mouth. This being said, If he wants to try to break out on his own, all the more power to him, he will need help, and he will want to take off as well.  Lots of stress not only in logs but folks as well,   If you like him, and trust him, you might try to work it out, if not, it is time to move on.   david

[Ken]

Although I do not take the time to do written performance evaluations we did have 3 conversations since July with respect to his lack of effort.  I did add an incentive bonus to his wages for the weeks that he worked more than x hours.  Worked for a couple of weeks but that was it.  When we last talked, nearly a week before by short vacation, I asked him nicely if he needed a break.  I would have temporarily laid him off if that was his desire. 

I pride myself in treating employees with a great deal of respect.  That probably explains why many have been with me for more than a decade.  I've never fired anyone.  I would never reprimand someone in front of others.  Those making an extra effort will indeed be recognized.   As mentioned in my previous post a lot of our work in seasonal and mostly piece work.  Lots of people do not get invited back for the next season if they do not meet my expectations.  When someone makes an honest to goodness effort I will do everything I can to keep them going even if they are not the biggest producers.

I have spent most of this week in the seat of the harvester.  As my precommercial thinning work is wrapping up for the season I may not replace the operator just yet.  I've made some significant equipment investments over the past few months so it would do me good to spend the winter in the seat.  Production was up this week 8)

Cheers
Ken

[barbender]

Sounds to me like you did everything you could, Ken. My last job, I was just getting tired of it after 16 years. Great company, great pay, but I was bored with some things and frustrated with other things to the point it was starting to affect my performance- I just didn't want to be there anymore. The pay was never an issue, I may never have a job that pays that well again, and in my case, a bonus or something may have given me a temporary boost but would have only delayed the inevitable. Once my heart wasn't in it anymore, it was time to go.

[Okrafarmer]

Nothing is forever. Even good people get to the point where they want to move on. Not everyone. Some people are happy to stay where they are for many years, and they become a fixture. Others ride the horse as far as the next town.

Sounds like the fellow in the op was just not a dependable guy, but the world is full of that type these days. Some of these people growing up now, never had a father, or a good father, to teach them right from wrong. They never learned what the proper way to live is. There always have been some of those folks, but there seem to be a larger percentage now than there were in the old days. And even some from good families just are determined to be contrary.

[redprospector]

RedProspector, if you have went through 24 guys in two years, I have to wonder where you are getting your help from and how much you are paying. For example, if you are expecting experienced equipment operators for $7.50/hr,(not saying that's what your paying) if you happen to find someone to work they are going to have issues that keep them from working somewhere else that is paying the going rate for that trade, i.e. no drivers license, criminal background, drinking and drug problems or just a bad attitude. There are still people out there with a good work ethic, they may be gettin rarer but they are out there.

I'm getting my help localy. Town of 700 people and I've been through half of them.  :D
I don't think it's what I'm paying. I had one "skidder driver" that could have been (should have been) pretty good. But what that guy couldn't eat or tear up, he'd crap on. I was paying him $6 an hour more than what he made on his last job driving a skidder.
I want my guy's to make a decent living because that's what I always wanted when I was working for others. I only ask that they show up (on time) and do their job. If the job is done on time I generally give a bonus. I try to work around their schedules (let them take time off to go to Colorado & ride snowmobiles). Helped one guy get a pickup so he could get to work. 6 weeks later he was arrested for DUI, and the cop's got the pickup, and he still owes me $1500.
Hmm, maybe that's it. I'm a sucker, and just too nice to work for. No one want's to work for a sucker. I'll have to work on that.  :D

Andy

[Okrafarmer]

 ;D Maybe that's it. I had one boss (I liked him pretty well) who knew in part of his brain that he was a softy on people. He one day told me he should stop calling his business a farm and start calling it "_____ Brothers Savings and Loan." He would loan some of his people money to buy a vehicle or a house, and take it out of their paycheck. There were some who got a loan and skipped town.

He also had a quick temper and would fire people pretty rapidly. Sometimes very legitimately, sometimes because of stupid stuff. Usually because of a lack of responsibility at some level. But he never quit liking most people, because he would get over the blowup and it was all in the past. He wasn't the sort to hold grudges. Sometimes, whomever he fired would come around to visit a couple months later, they would strike up a conversation, the boss would ask, "so what are you doing these days?" They'd say, "Oh, nothing much, just trying to find work" and he'd say, "Well, so and so just quit the other day. You want to come back?" And he'd say, "Oh, I guess so." And he'd be back to work.

One guy held the record. He had been fired four times. On the final time, the boss told him, "Go home, leave your truck here, and we'll call it even."

[redprospector]

if you keep the old dinasaur way of thinking in todays marketplace, you stand to lose alot more money to the training of new hires than you realize. if you figgure a large turnover then figure in the training involved it gets pricey quick.

there is middle ground to be had by both partys, short of catering to and babying employees.

That is one of my biggest complaints. Investing in the training of a new employee and not having the oppertunity to recoup at least part of that cost. I think my employee problem is probably unique to this area. We used to be a logging comunity. Unfortunatly, most of the old loggers moved North when our forest was shut down by environmentalist law suits in the early 90's. Now we are a "tourist" town. It's hard to find much work ethic in people that grow up in a tourist town (there may be a few exceptions).

Andy