Advice on sawing these cherry logs

Slingshot · September 29, 2012, 10:37:41 PM

I have these logs from a leaning cherry tree. Wondering if I can get some decent
lumber from them and what would be the best way to saw them. The pith is quite
a bit off center.

________________________
Charles

Okrafarmer · September 29, 2012, 11:01:17 PM

Heilige Kuh, Slingshot, those are some purty logs! How big are they?

I love cherry, but am not an expert on it by any means, the stresses and so on confuse me.

The answers to your questions will crystallize better if we know what you would like to make out of these logs. My thought would be to mill them parallell to the stress lines, so that your flitches curve like a rainbow, but are flat the skinny way. (If that makes sense). 'Nother words, I would make it so that after it's done with its delingquent gyrations, you could lay the board flatwise on a flat surface, and it would lie down flat all over, even though it was curved from end to end.

My understanding of how to do that, is to identify which way the tree was leaning, and then mill it parallel to the direction it was leaning. That can usually be determined by looking at where the off-center heart is on the end of the log, marking a dot where the edge of the circle is at the closest point to the center of the heart, then drawing a straight line across the end of the log, lining up your dot you made on the edge, with the first-year growth ring at the middle of the heartwood, and continuing across to the opposite side. Then mill parallel to that line.

Now, that is how I understand it, and how I would try it, unless someone told me any better. Someone more experienced may correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll also point out, that my understanding is, that what I described above only works well if the tree was a STRAIGHT tree leaning in one direction. If your tree was curvy, twisted, bent, etc, then all bets are off. Which describes most of the cherry trees that grow in my neck of the woods. :-\

drobertson · September 29, 2012, 11:09:10 PM

slingshot, I cut all of my logs parallel to the sweep. When the boards are stripped and stack with weight they should lay flat. the other boards will be edged and most of the stress will be removed and they will remain straight and flat. Just how I do it.

Okrafarmer · September 29, 2012, 11:42:28 PM

:P There. He said it a lot more succinctly than I did.

Slingshot · September 30, 2012, 12:10:34 AM

Thanks for the replies. I think both answers point to the same way to cut. I've sawed logs from
leaning poplar that didn't really matter the outcome but wasn't sure just how to get the flattest
boards from these. I'm planning some wide boards for blanket chests and cabinets, etc.
Probably sell some if it turns out pretty good.
The logs are all about 20 inches inside the bark. I picked them up from a guy that cuts firewood
They were given to him, cut from a wooded lot being cleared for a house. There are 3 logs just under
8 feet and 1 that is 5 feet. He let me have them for the price he gets for a rick of firewood. 40 bucks.
I don't really need to buy cherry because I have several large cherry trees on my property that I
can cut but thought this was worth a doing. I'll be sawing one soon.

______________________
Charles,

Okrafarmer · September 30, 2012, 12:13:37 AM

At that price, darn tootin. It would have been criminal to let that get burned up. It should make some great benches, tables, chests, cabinets, whatever you have in mind. That's much nicer and much bigger cherry than I usually get to have around here.

Okrafarmer · September 30, 2012, 12:14:34 AM

Did you paint the ends yet? Better do that pronto if you're not going to mill them right away.

Slingshot · September 30, 2012, 12:20:48 AM

I haven't painted the ends but I will seal them right away. The tree was cut about a month ago
so I'll seal what I don't saw this next week.
Thanks for all.

________________________
Charles

Magicman · September 30, 2012, 08:18:14 AM

If I am following the above sawing advice, I would be very hesitant because Black Cherry is notorious for having heart check. If you do not saw parallel to that check, almost always from the hump or horn sides, every board will split along this heart check line. The heart check is visible in the lower left in the last picture posted above,

Sawing through parallel to the heart check.

The heart check is contained within only a couple of boards.

drobertson · September 30, 2012, 10:18:23 AM

Lynn is correct in this, and I follow his method as well, at times, I just have found for straighter boards that require less stress trimming, I like to saw parallel to the sweep, it seems like a give and take on each log, and each log should be evaulated. Most of the time the pith is going to be sawed out when I finish edge, leaving some decent q-swn boards, the rot and other defects will end up in the slab rack. Just my way of doing, and I still have much to learn, Those cherries are looking sweat, and I would have gave 40 without a thought.

Slingshot · September 30, 2012, 10:59:24 AM

I'm going to saw the short log tomorrow. It has the most off-center pith.
I'll make some pictures of the boards and what i find.
I didn't ask if all the logs came from one tree but I think they probably did
from the looks of the ends.
Thanks for the advise.

___________________________
Charles

POSTON WIDEHEAD · September 30, 2012, 12:44:42 PM

I wish we had BIG Cherry trees in this part of the country.

Okrafarmer · September 30, 2012, 03:43:49 PM

I'm supposed to be getting a decently big one pretty soon, I hope. At least 24" which will be by far the largest cherry I've ever done. It isn't in the bag yet, though, so I ought not to "boast of tomorrow."

shelbycharger400 · September 30, 2012, 08:06:14 PM

Cherry here spalts out in about 4 months.
Like magic said. Pay attention to what the log tells you. I did an oak log that was similar to that. It might have been more from the log sitting here for over a year or 2 but some pieces of it cracked at both ends. Now, If your lucky, these are red oak

As you can see I sawed through the pith, It is 2 1/4 thick, 3 feet long and dried fairly straight. It was on the top of the stack, but this was down. Im not shure what it is but the board is more pinkish red, whereas the 2 boards below it are definately brownish, it dosnt show up in the photo tho. This one should have been sawn down the center but was missed. Also to note, when centering the pith, splitting the center board seems to have worked out well for me in a high percentage of the time. The 2nd photo is a centered 2 1/4 thick, split down the center.

Now due to only hobby sawing for me, This is what I do.
Lay out all boards cut. Soak both sides with the hose, debark and such. prop them up on one side and let dry for a day, next flip, day passes, flip. IF it has been really dry and warm I spray them again. I sticker after about a week or so when they dont feel wet to the touch, somewhere in that 20 -25 percent mosture.

The stack contains enough for 3 tressle tables, Character to pieces for the legs and feet should work out well.

Sawdust Lover · September 30, 2012, 09:34:43 PM

I'm going with what MM said. I would also cut it into 8/4 stock. But I haven't cut a million bf yet either.

Okrafarmer · September 30, 2012, 10:09:46 PM

It partly depends on your desired uses for the lumber. All else being equal, and if the log is straight and unstressed, you should definitely saw with end-split. But if it is stressed, that means you have to start making decisions based on what you want out of it. Whether it's more important that it doesn't split, or more important that it doesn't warp.

drobertson · September 30, 2012, 10:14:32 PM

Nice pic, and not having a scale it is hard to say how much waste is there. the pith would be cut out with minamal clean up and there is some nice boards. Most big logs have a split, and more have ants. this is what I have seen. It is just a bit of work, but lots of good, pretty lumber. Many ways to skin a cat, they say, I like straight boards. The straighter off the mill, the less waste on the finish board after drying. Provided no knots are present. Meaning Knots that are big enough to have a cause and effect. The inside of any log, 3X3 or so will always be trashy, unless it is pine, even then, bigger you go, the more risk for splits.

Magicman · September 30, 2012, 10:25:06 PM

Sawing down from the hump or horns will yield lumber that will tend to bow. Lumber sawed from the flat sides will tend to crook.

Everyone is really saying the same thing; "read the log and saw it according to the lumber that you wish to produce".

Since I am not sawing lumber to sell, my option is always to produce the maximum bf of usable lumber for the customer. Sawing parallel to the pith check produces this maximum. Usually even the pith check board as shown above will have a good side. That one did.

WDH · October 01, 2012, 07:44:20 AM

Cherry is one of the worst species that I have sawn in terms of the boards, with or near the pith, cracking and checking.

Magicman · October 01, 2012, 08:11:33 AM

But the reward is worth the effort.

This pattern was throughout the entire log.

grweldon · October 01, 2012, 08:48:36 AM

Since I'm really new to this, I want to ask for clarification to what I've read in the previous posts...

When y'all say sawing parallel to the sweep (pith), you are saying that the pith will run as close as parallel to the horizontal plane of the bed of the mill when through sawing the resulting cant? I wish I could include a simple sketch to show what I'm asking. In other words, when you first put the log on the deck the log will tend to be away from the stops on the ends and touch the stops in the middle (if it's severely bowed)? Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to become less ignorant!

Magicman · October 01, 2012, 09:13:46 AM

Quote from: grweldon on October 01, 2012, 08:48:36 AM
In other words, when you first put the log on the deck the log will tend to be away from the stops on the ends and touch the stops in the middle

In my view, if you sawed through with the log or cant in the position that you described, you would be sawing parallel to the sweep. Lumber sawed that way would tend to lay flat, but would also tend to crook.

Sometimes we/I get twisted up with terminology that may not be correct or easily understood by others. I just know how I would set the log up to get the maximum yield.

grweldon · October 01, 2012, 10:59:51 AM

Thank you MM for the clarification. I'm so new to all this that I wouldn't know the correct terminology anyway. I got it now!

Okrafarmer · October 01, 2012, 02:16:34 PM

What MM said is what I was trying to say. And most times, most cases, I would prefer hardwood lumber to crook rather than to bow, warp, or twist. There may be cases where bowing would be preferable, but not most of my scenarios. Especially for cherry.

Magicman · October 01, 2012, 02:40:07 PM

Since a Cherry log with sweep most always has the pith check perpendicular to the sweep, I most always saw through from either the hump or horn faces. My customers are looking for the maximum number of wide boards. Properly stickered, the bow will be minimized when dried.

We are talking Cherry, but the same thing holds true for SYP, you just do not have pith check.