Large Poplar (Aspen) in New Brunswick?

[slowzuki]

I'm thinking Swampdonkey will know the answer!

I was walking on our property and the middle of a mixed cedar/fir/spruce stand there were about a dozen very large hardwoods.

About 60 ft tall, about 24" dbh (I couldn't get my arms around them, about a foot short)

I had seen the crown from a distance before in summer and assumed just a tall white birch stand.

The bark is coarse and dark at the base but turns to smooth white up about 30 ft.

The trunks are perfectly straight the first 30 ft with almost no taper, there are no limbs until at least 30 ft.

Are they what I think?  Most poplars here get that black patches on the bark, die and fall over before they make it to 6" dbh.
Ken

[SwampDonkey]

slowzuki

:D :D Why thank you for your faith in my dendro knowledge without seeing a picture.  :D  :D

errrm  :-/  I have a good idea.  ;)

If you could, observe the stand in mid May before sugar maple is leaved out. What I want you to look at is the foliage, from the same view point from which you thought they were birch. What your looking to see is if the leaves look white from a distance. And if your walking in the stand after a big wind by June this summer, see if you find leaves with white hairs on them, like velvet, on the ground. Also, see if the leaves have course teeth on the margins. If you don't observe this, then its a close cousin.  

And that's all I'm saying

[redpowerd]

itll be the first stuff to green up in the spring, got kinda a musty smell, too

[Sailor]

 I cut a lot of Aspen in Alberta, it takes a little extra care when drying but makes lovely lumber for furniture if you use a special hardner before finishing as it dents with about 350 psi. It makes very nice flooring as well but is not the best wood if left outside exposed. I put a couple of sites here that may help you in identifying your trees.

 8)
http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/forest/tremasp.htm

http://www.fw.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/ptremuloides.htm

http://bss.sfsu.edu/geog/bholzman/courses/fall99projects/aspen.htm

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Constructing_with_poplar.html


Sailor
ps this is an picture of Aspen being sawn, the beams are Aspen as well.
https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/index.php

[slowzuki]

I did some more research and I'm thinking Bigtooth Aspen or Balsam Poplar.

 I'll look for the sawteeth and the fuzz!  The branch structure combined with the white, smooth bark up high is making me lean one way, but I won't say just yet!

The books could tell me if I could climb the tree to see a bud!
Ken

[Sailor]

The Balsam has a much darker and furrowed bark than the Aspen and is not as light a bark on the top. The interior wood is not white like the Aspen either. The leaves are bigger as well. If the bark is dark and furrowed most of the way up with very large leaves it may be black poplar which makes great decking for trailers, it's as hard as nails. 8)

[L. Wakefield]

   Balsam poplar down here has a darker bark on the younger wood- a fair amount of stains from the resin from the buds- the leaves also get resin stains- another feature when the leaves are out is that they are about the only poplar with a rounded (as opposed to a flattened) petiole. So the leaves don't flip over in the wind. Other poplars do like the 'quaking aspen'. They are a 'browner ' (bronze) looking tree overall, but it is very pronounced in the summer, less so in the winter. And the leaves have minimal fine teeth- not at all like bigtooth poplar.  lw

[slowzuki]

Have some more hints now it is spring here




This is one of the crooked ones, some are straighter.  It should be easy to identify now!

[SwampDonkey]

If the top section of the tree has light bark its probably a tembling aspen. Large toothed up here has greenish tinge on the tops. Wait for the leaves to elongate (spring leaves) to see if they are pubescent, if so then its large toothed. And also there should be some fall leaves on the ground with course toothed leaf margines. Tembling is finely serated on the margines.

That's a small one, we need to take a drive up the Tobique to see some big stuff.  ;)  :D

[Sailor]

Sawing some Aspen this spring, saws best frozen. 8)

[Jeff]

Not with a circle mill. I prefer mine thawed out.

[SwampDonkey]

The local small circular mills don't saw hardwood in winter here either. One reason is there's no heat in the mills and two they don't have a heated mill pond.

[Sailor]

I saw the Aspen frozen with the band as it leaves a better finish (less planing) and doesn't tear out as it does in summer. Half frozen, as with any wood, does not work. I saw my soft woods in summer. As for the cold, well what can I say, I live in the far north where we continually tell ourselves "it's a dry cold", stupid people. 8)

[Jeff]

We dont usually let regular cold dont stop us, only bitter cold (below -5 F). The only thing heated at the mill is my saw booth, the bathroom and the breakroom.

[SwampDonkey]

One of the two mills I was referring to in my area hasn't even a lunch room or a bathroom and the other no lunch room just a heated office where the owner gets orders and buys hardwood in winter months. These smaller hardwood mills shut down around Christmas and startup in April or May. They're both circular mills as I said before. With one of the mills, sawing is only secondary business and both get most of their hardwood from Crown as they are sub-licensees.

[SwampDonkey]

Here are the emerging pubescent spring leaves of the large toothed aspen.



Here is how large toothed aspen stands out in the landscape. (white crowns)

[slowzuki]

I was out to look at the trees last night and although they are lighter than the nearby evergreens they do not have as light of crown as your pics Swampy.

The mosquitos prevented me from enjoying a good look >:( as I was on a bike.  Have to don some musqol and try again!

[SwampDonkey]

They are easier to spot from a distance. In clearcuts they are the fastest growing trees and you'll see them in small clumps. Some sites may be dominated by large-toothed, but most sites have mainly trembling in my experience.

[SwampDonkey]

slowzuki:

Your middle picture is the flowers of trembling aspen, forgot to mention that. ;)

cheers

[slowzuki]

Hmm, well they're all pics from the same tree ;D  Trembling aspen eh?

[SwampDonkey]

Yup, the timing was a bit off for large toothed. ;D Notice how the leaves was just emerging in mid June on my large-toothed shots. There as slow as hardwood to emerge. ;)

[2bearslumber]

The photo of the bark looks like the poplar we've been cutting here in Maine. We have a couple of different species of poplar. I don't know their names. One dies off quite young, but the other ones do get quite large. We boarded in an addition to our garage with some of those poplar boards. Nailed 'em on green. They shrunk quite a bit, but we didn't mind for what we used 'em for.

When planed some of that poplar has a bird's eye quality. Quite pretty. But it doesn't seem to be a very strong wood.

[SwampDonkey]

You can probably distinuish the 2 or 3 species down your way if ya kinda keep your eyes peeled during the times of year mentioned in this thread.

balsam poplar have medium sized leaves (obovate-shaped) with sticky buds.

large toothed have small-medium round-shaped leaves with large teeth  on the margins.

trembling (quaking) aspen have small round leaves with tiny teeth along leave margins.

Large-toothed and trembling (quaking) aspen have similar wood properties. The bark difference is usually lighter in color on the trembling and more greenish gray on the large-toothed.

[SwampDonkey]

Just bringing this thread forward with some pictures of large toothed aspen bark. This stand was thinned in 2001. The bark looks almost like sugar maple doesn't it? I think I mentioned this in this thread or in another thread. Now if I didn't tell ya and show ya, you wouldn't have know'd. Not all stands of large toothed aspen exhibit this white blotching. ;D This stand was a couple of woodlots north of my uncle's woodlot.

[jon12345]

I remember my dendro. lab professor saying somethin about an orangish tinge to the bark on the big tooth, but then again, I've been wrong before... :