lovely certifications!

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 09:32:11 PM

:P So caught wind last week late that I have to get my fista certification back... So seconds later I phone up "great lakes timber professionals association" as I was advised to do. This is later on in the after on friday for a time frame... The gentleman that I spoke to was great, said that a gal would call me back on Monday(today) as she did..... only to inform me that the 2 8hr bmp classes i need and are scheduled for this wed. and thur. are full, and then tells me that they don't have another class scheduled for the rest of the year! She says (and I'm not blaming her, she's just doing her job) that they are getting a lot of calls for this same class and might do another class, but no guarantees? Also added that it depended on if the instructor(s) were willing to do a class if it ends up short on people. I offered to travel within reason to obtain the class... NO DICE! Sure is funny how that works, they make the rules, then don't offer the classes until it works out for their schedule, but we still get to pay them whatever they set the price at! Wish it was that way for us! Sorry for the venting, but to say the least, I was a little overheated!!!! ;D

beenthere · September 24, 2012, 09:42:53 PM

This must be very frustrating. It is the direction I thought we were headed when SFI first was talked about.
This link tells about some of the "rules". They got you over the barrel and are giving you the proverbial shaft. IMO

http://fistausa.org/content/how-become-sfi-certified

Okrafarmer · September 24, 2012, 09:45:02 PM

Sorry, Pigpen, that's the land we live in. I'm sad for you, and for all ~~Middle~~earth. I'd say more, but I would get us sent to the Restricted Topics forum.

Are they going to keep you from working until you get your certification? :-\

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 09:55:10 PM

I suspected this day was coming, but figured it wouldn't be so hard to obtain classes... wish I would have kept up on it from years back, but at that time the "bigger" logger I was working for took care of it and I really never thought about it. Oh well I guess... It is funny how a situation @#$$%$ you off and posting it and reading others in the profession agreeing with you cheers a guy up a little. Hope all is well for everyone.

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 10:02:15 PM

Okrafarmer, yep, my trucker said friday that he can't buy any more wood from me until I get it, He didn't know that I didn't have it anymore and without it he can lose his contract with the mill, so I don't blame him either. The only good news is that I'm still landscaping for another 6 weeks or so, then I will be in the woods 5 to 6 days a week, or at least that's what my plan was. I cut wood on the weekends if I have nothing else to do during the summer cause I enjoy being in the woods more than my house I think! :D Only have shipped a handful of loads this summer, I have been busy either working or wrenching, always something right! lol

1270d · September 24, 2012, 10:06:27 PM

A new change here with Sfi cert is that the credits now follow the particcular person, not only the company. So if you attend classes as an employee, the credits should follow you if you become self employed.

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 10:44:51 PM

If I'm understanding them correctly, It does here to, I give them my name and that was it and they found me on the list, so It must also go under my name and not just the company.

Okrafarmer · September 24, 2012, 11:05:01 PM

So is that just a Wisconsin thing? What states does it apply to?

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 11:27:02 PM

Not sure, but one thing I didn't explain, it's the pulp mills that require it, the sawlog mills don't that I know of. So not sure on what states do and don't... Sorry.

Okrafarmer · September 24, 2012, 11:34:32 PM

I was wondering if other members might know. Around here, things seem to be pretty informal. We're nobodies, and they take our pulp.

pigpen · September 24, 2012, 11:41:50 PM

It seems if you have a load here and a load there type of thing they don't ask to many questions, but if you up your production, that's what triggered the question for me... was just checking to see if my trucker was going to be able to haul 1 load a day from me this winter and poof, the magic question popped up!

MJD · September 25, 2012, 05:57:36 AM

The sawmill I sold to/ cut for did require loggers to keep up on our fista certifications because the sold dust/chips to the pulpmill.

SwampDonkey · September 25, 2012, 06:21:37 AM

Around here they just certify the land, not the loggers. And it is most all public land that is certified and Industrial Freehold because the government said so, not Lowes or Time Warner. The governemnt said pick one and go with it, didn't matter which one. SO they took the least restrictive. Large woodlot owners aren't (non industrial) and only a hand full of smaller owners are to make their hobbies look good because they don't cut much anyway. That might sound biased, but they simply aren't a significant source of wood to argue over. One thing everyone has to deal with however is chain of custody and they donned this onto the truckers keeping log books of where the wood is coming and going and the mills taking the wood keeping track of where it comes from. Again just the pulp mills on the certification and all mills for chain of custody. Hard to cut logs without making pulp to. Our biggest problem here is moving pulp because of over supply in the market caused by trying to cut as usual while the milling capacity is collapsing around us.

Ron Wenrich · September 25, 2012, 06:32:17 AM

I'm thinking that its only for pulp mills in PA. There are only a few, and it just forced the loggers to either let it lay, or sell it for firewood. I know our crews went through a program just to sell a few loads a month to a pulp mill. No need for certification at the sawlog or veneer level. Apparently no demand.

WDH · September 25, 2012, 07:59:17 AM

It is common in the South for the large companies to require the SFI training, especially loggers that cut on company land or for suppliers that supply the pulpmills. In the pulp business, the large customers of pulp like Procter & Gamble require the pulpmills to track the origin of the wood and the amount of certified wood that is grown sustainably and certified by SFI, FSC, or the ATFS. There is also a push by Procter & Gamble for more "certified" wood.

The customers on the lumber side have been less insistent, but Lowes and Home Depot will likely follow suit, but they deal mainly in construction grade softwoods, not hardwoods.

Autocar · September 25, 2012, 08:33:37 AM

What exactly dose those letters stand for ? Seems to me its nuts to put a producer out of work if it's there problem booking a class.

Meadows Miller · September 25, 2012, 09:41:12 AM

I know how you feel We have a whole lotta paprework and tickets down here in Victoria that you apparently need to work in State owned Forest funny thing is when I started falling and driving equipment I was underage (18yo requirement) buy about 6 years but had the insurance cover to be working out there so the Foresters use to let it slide and not ask the stupid question wheres your FOL Forest Operators License

??? :

:P ;) :D :D I just stick to private stuff these days ;) ;D

Have you got it sorted yet ??

Regards Chris

thecfarm · September 25, 2012, 10:32:33 AM

Maine tracks loads of wood too. When I was cutting on my own land,I didn't need to be certified. The paper mills require the classes. Said they would pay more for the pulp. :

I kinda feel the guys putting the clases on are the only ones making money. ;D But it has weeded out the guys that was given the logging industry a bad name too. But it also had weeded out alot of the good guys with a just a chain saw and a skidder too. :( I do need to fill out any paper work that the state requires and tell them how much I was cutting each year. I do feel the classes are good but costly too. A good idea to go to them once,,but to be re certified I feel is a little too much on the wallet for a small time guy.

Ron Wenrich · September 25, 2012, 10:52:13 AM

If they were looking for certified wood, then the pulp companies would run out. Too much private land and very few certify their land. Only the state is on board, and I don't think the Game Commission has certified. The Game Commission has stated they aren't in the business of raising trees, just making game habitat.

240b · September 25, 2012, 11:58:21 AM

Isn't there an exemption for excavation/land clearing contractors some where in the sfi paper work. I know there was when it first came out. Biggest problem I had was the trucker using my number to sell other peoples wood. I kinda gave up on the whole thing after a couple years.......

MJD · September 25, 2012, 01:09:12 PM

Here the DNR require at least 1 guy working the job to be SFI certified to cut on any state owned land, and that is 1 of the reasons I got out of logging. Before that was required I had a great thing going with the local DNR forester he liked my work and would give me lots of jobs+ gave my name to landowners looking to sell timber, it is just plane dumb that a certificate can stand in the way even when they know your a good operator. B.S.

beenthere · September 25, 2012, 02:46:06 PM

Quote from: Autocar on September 25, 2012, 08:33:37 AM
What exactly dose those letters stand for ? Seems to me its nuts to put a producer out of work if it's there problem booking a class.

SFI?

Sustainable Forestry Initiative

http://www.sfiprogram.org/

lumberjack48 · September 25, 2012, 03:31:40 PM

If they would have told me that i had to be certified to cut wood, i would have told them where to put the wood, the light don't shine to good there.

There should be a Grandfather Act, for men that have logged or trucked x yrs.

This is just more control, why can't they leave a working man alone.

Autocar · September 25, 2012, 03:41:03 PM

Lumberjack 48 Iam with you brother :D :D :D. Thanks Beenthere I looked the site over Iam still siding with Lumberjack 48 :D.

thecfarm · September 25, 2012, 07:51:47 PM

Ron,sorry I said it wrong. The land is not certified,mine is not. I meant a logger needs to take the classes to be cetified. I really don't know what certified land is. In Maine there is tree growth. You have a plan and you can only cut what the plans tells you to and when.