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Which Skidder?

Started by Sulla, September 20, 2012, 08:31:02 PM

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Sulla

That 240 is nice but out of my price range. The 460 is closer. Any issues with the 460 TJ?

I didn't really mean the trees are 150 years old. I don't know how old they are, they're just older than me. And I was taught to respect my elders.

The JD 440 was sure nice in the woods. I could get in pretty tight areas with out destroying everything. Just worried its not big enough to skid big logs down hill. If I'm wrong I'd be happy to get another one.


quote author=Maine372 link=topic=60737.msg891164#msg891164 date=1348427276]
northern NH, steep ground, that many acres.......

i think tj240 would be a good fit. stable on steep ground, easy on and off, simple to fix. a later model with a cummins engine would be a little more operator friendly than an older one with a GM. 23.1-26 tires should be tall enough to keep your ground clearance and not too wide when working in deep snow.

there is a 1993 TJ240 grapple with a winch at chadwick and baross in mass. looks like what i would get in your situation. the grapple for big trees one or two at a time, the winch for places you cannot get to, or bunching smaller trees. i would build a set of fenders for the rear tires and add some hooks to grab with the grapple and keep it out of the way when using the winch.
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Okrafarmer

I would have to say, you could skid almost any size tree with that 440, but if the terrain is extreme and the log is extremely big, you may have to cut it in two and take it in two trips.

If you are afraid of the log overtaking you and pushing you down the hill, there are several tactics you can use to help alleviate this problem.

A. Cut in smaller sections and move them down one at a time
B. Leave all or some of the limbs on, which will provide friction against the other trees and the ground. Of course, this can result in some damage to your remaining stand. . .
C. Don't lift the front of the log off the ground. Drag it for extra braking. This does result in grinding dirt into the end of the log, but it may be worth it as this is one of the simplest solutions of all. You do have to go slow in case you snag it on a stump, root, rock, etc, just be ready to stop power immediately if that happens, and fix the problem.

Go slow and let the winch do as much of the work as possible in rough terrain. 

Bigger skidders, the wider they get, the harder to get them through if you are thinning or working difficult terrain, but you do get faster better production on clear-cutting and more favorable terrain. It's a trade-off, like most things in life.

Maybe you should have two skidders. . .   ::)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Sulla

No one has mentioned a Cat skidder. There are a couple of 518 for sale around here. Any reason not to consider a Cat?

The 440 does move around nicely and parts are easy to get, it can get a bit tippy at times.

I'm going to take a look at a Timber Jack this weekend I think.

I really need to get a skidder soon. Pulling them out with the excavator is getting costly with damage to the cab. A stump I was moving feel out of the bucket and busted the front cage right of the angle iron.

Thanks of all the ideas.

logloper

Look at the Cat. They are great on steep ground, and parts are easy to get. Very simple and easy to work on. Pulling bunches all day hard, a 518 grapple uses 25-30 gallons of fuel. This should be 25000 to 35000 BDFT, or 5 to 7 loads of long logs.

Rob-IL

I had a 1986 Cat 518 Grapple skidder for about 4 years, it was great on hills but rough on the ground plus had a real drinking problem (45-50 gal on a hard day) I'm sold on the Deere 540Bs along with the 240 TJs (have both) Both are rugged and real work horses and don't cost an arm & leg to purchase or operate. Dad purchased a new Deere 440B late in 1971 or early 72 for $15,500  Times have changed!!!
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

Okrafarmer

Long around 1971 or so you could buy a John Deere 4020 farm tractor for around $12,000 or so. By 1980, a 4040 JD barebones cost around $30,000. The '70's were a terrible time to live through-- thankfully, I can barely remember them!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

grassfed

"Cat skidder" They cost $$$$ to repair. A friend did a 518 motor last year for $16K and trans are more than that. Figure that it will cost you 4x to repair when compared to a 440B and 5X compared to a TJ 230. If you are running a 1-3 man crew and using chainsaws you should get a 230tj or 540 Deere Cable skidder. I would get a 540B-D in your shoes. Get a grapple if you are working with a feller buncher otherwise you are better off with a straight cable machine.
Mike

240b

If you have limited experience a Cat would be a good choice.(easy to operate and stable) A 518 series II, really stable and will pull whole trees without struggling. Will burn some fuel and cost to repair, but if you got cash to be buying up land.. you can most likely afford to fix the thing. Don't buy a clunker, and expect to spend more than 20k. you won't get much for 20k in northern nh..  Your ground is probably large rocks and mud if not frozen,right?  Biggest problem is dealer is in southern NH or richmond VT. But they will have the parts the next day..

lumberjack48

I would get a C5D, think you need a little more machine, jump to a C6.

If you run in to a S8 or a S8A International these are very good skidders, i owned one for 16 yrs, it was run yr round. All parts are available for them.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

overtime

I just got a 77 s8a about 2 weeks ago so far I love it ten times more stable than my c5 was were going to pick up another 77 s8a this friday

thecfarm

International,I saw one of then about 20 years ago. have not seen one since.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

logloper

In the Sep 2012 issue of Log Trucker/ Loggers World, they have 518 motors for sale.Completely rebuilt with 100,000 mile warranty for $5150. I agree the Cat parts are more than the J Deere ( never had TreeFarmer), but the Cat parts seem much more readily available. I can pay a bit more if it means I am up and running faster. I sure wish the old Cats had the brakes off of the 540 Deere. The air system on the Cat leaves alot to be desired.My fuel tank holds 30 gallon and I have only run it out a few times in a day. That was pulling uphill in 2 plus feet of snow.Ive had two 518 skidders for 6 years, and have a 525B being delivered on Sat.  Guess i might be a bit biased.

barbender

Are you sure those were for motors for a 518? How do you know when you have 100,000 miles on your skidder ::)
Too many irons in the fire

redprospector

Quote from: Okrafarmer on September 26, 2012, 08:12:56 AM
Long around 1971 or so you could buy a John Deere 4020 farm tractor for around $12,000 or so. By 1980, a 4040 JD barebones cost around $30,000. The '70's were a terrible time to live through-- thankfully, I can barely remember them!

Hahaha. Man you've got a good memory. You had to be all of what...2 years old when the 70's ended? Just giving ya a hard time.  :D
I remember going with my Dad in 72 to the Chevy dealer. He bought a brand new 3/4 ton Chevy Cheyenne 2 wd pickup with a 402 bb and TH400 transmission for $2000.00. My how times have changed. People will say; Yeah, but look at how much more money you make today. My dad wasn't rich, and paid cash for a new pickup. How many people do you know that can do that today?

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

ga jones

cat is expensive expensive. and drink fuel. tree farmer or tj 5 to 10 gal a day. component machines. You can get parts anywhere.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

thecfarm

My Dad always paid cash too for his trucks. never nothing fancy,just a plain old pick up  truck with a standard,because they was cheaper.I can still hear him say,I can do alot of shifting for $200.We was for from having money too. Sometimes he would cut a little wood to help pay for it. He would tell them a price and the dealer would say no way. My Father would leave and the phone would ring in a few days. My father would say no I said $3500 or whatever he told them the first time and just hang up on them. This may go on for a couple weeks until finally they would agree on a price,his price.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

treefarmer87

from what i found out, if you cut alot of larger timber like i do, a 240 tj c6 TF, or 640 deere would be good. my c5B "pulpwood special" didnt handle those large oaks and poplars well :( i miss how narrow that little skidder was with 18.4x26s compared to 28Lx26s now, :( but i like the c6s power 8)
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Okrafarmer

TF, are you saying that a TJ 240 is comparable to a JD 640? I've seen a TJ 380 and JD 540 side by side (working), and the 380 was notably bigger than the 540. (this was in 1991). I would assume a 640 would be about the size of a 380, but what say you?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

logloper

Barbender,  Same model number as the motor in my 518. And second question,I dont know.

Rob-IL

We have a 1979 Deere 540B and a 1984 Timberjack 240A powerd by a 4-53 Jimmy, as far as a dead pull goes there isn't much differce as their weight is about the same and their both on 23.1s. Either will pull until they rareup or spin out. The 240 will pull a good size load a little faster (& somewhat easier) than the 540 so you can say at the end of the day it gets a little more done. The Deere defintly has a better braking and steering setup but the Jack gets the job done and is MUCH easier getting off & on. Both are fuel friendly and great machines. I've never owned or operated a 640 Deere but been around & seen them working, I would have to believe the 640 has quite a bit more pulling power than a 240, closer to a 450 Jack I would say. I've also owned a 86 Cat 518 Grapple (never again) one of the last (if not the last) Pettibone 501L built (loader on the front instead of blade), a 77 666B Clark & a 78 667 Clark and a 75 440B. The Pettibone could make a man consider slicing his wrist, the Clarks were decent machines, the 440 was a great little skidder that we cheaply moved alot of good (& large) timber with. I do alot of horse trading and tinkering around with skidders, just something I enjoy. :) 
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

grassfed

There is an 1985 TJ 240A for sale in Newport VT for $16,500 on craigslist. Newport is very close to N. NH

PLEASE READ THE FORUM RULES ON POSTING. CRAIGS LIST AND EBY LINKS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THE FORESTRY FORUM
Mike

Okrafarmer

Oh, that looks like it could be  a good one!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

barbender

Logloper, what model engine does the 518 run? Rob-IL, what about the Pettibone made you want to slice your wrists?
Too many irons in the fire

logman81

Precision Firewood & Logging

Rob-IL

Barbender, the 501L had a loader in the front instead of a blade, the idea was that you could skid & load with the machine. They (Pettibone) made them for several years and some guys swore by them. The forks were short and rounded and relied on the bailer to grab, when they were lowered you couldn't see them. I got to where I could drive up to a log and have the forks pointed down and grab with the bailer. For what the machine was it was probably ok but when you have used a knuckle boom for 25+ years it's hard to handle logs with anything else production wise for me anyway. Because it had the loader it was built with the front axle mounted solid to the frame and had a center trunnion for osculation, like the Cat 518 & Franklin skidders. I do admit though, it could pull quite a load and was great for some one who went around cutting a few high grade trees here & there but even thats becoming a thing of the past. // My Cat 518 had a dieselolohic 3304 4 cyl, if the ground was some what soft but we were able to skid ok with the Deere 540 you didn't even dare try using the 518 as it would usually bring using the skid trail to a halt. Also had some repair $$$s horror stories with it, actually parts wern't priced that bad but if you needed Cat speciality service work done (like injector pump for instance) then be prepared for the shock treatment. :)
   
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

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