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how much to charge to process wood for other folks

Started by muddstopper, September 10, 2012, 01:18:07 PM

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muddstopper

I just got back from a 5300mile around the country trip. While driving i was keeping my eyes peeled for firewood processors. We drove mostly interstate, so I only saw one east of Cody Wyoming. It was a small machine but the owner had a sign on it advertiseing he would hire out to split your wood. Since there wasnt anybody around to talk to about his machine or business, I thought I would just ask the question, "What would be a fair rate to charge if you owned a processor and where willing to drive it to sombody elses property to process logs they had harvested"? You would need a way to load the logs onto the processor so that expense would also have to be figured into the price. The one machine I looked at had the winch setup that dragged the logs one at a time up on the processor, but I have seen pictures of all kind of log lifts, knuckel booms, and simple tractors with FEL's so I am sure each operation would have different cost factors.

stumper

I would say $50 per cord.   I figure I am worth $25 per hour with a saw and $25 per hour with a splitter.  I process about a cord an hour with each if I am working hard.  Hopefully, you would process wood fast then 1/2 cord per hour but your machine will cost more as well.

beenthere

Have you looked at the Logrite splitter? They have moving logs to the processor well covered, as well as the portability, are quick, and reasonably priced. If I were to go "on the road", it would be my choice.
Only a vehicle to tow it from place to place.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,53648.0.html

Any pics of your trip?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

Have not heard of much of this in my area of Maine. I do see some tree lenght in people's yard. I can see they cut away on the pile with a chainsaw. I use to have my wood hauled to my other house with a truck in 4 foot lenghts. Makes a mess. Have to clean up the bark and sawdust. But was nice to be able to have the wood there and work on it without having to travel 15 minutes to saw it up.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Logging logginglogging

Quote from: beenthere on September 10, 2012, 02:05:07 PM
Have you looked at the Logrite splitter? They have moving logs to the processor well covered, as well as the portability, are quick, and reasonably priced. If I were to go "on the road", it would be my choice.
Only a vehicle to tow it from place to place.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,53648.0.html

Any pics of your trip?

Intresting videos.... I still am not totally convinced it would split all the same stuff i do with a hydralic splitter. How much do those things go for?

beenthere

There are limits to everything, but then it is easy to drop a sawcut through the tough ones anyway. Less time than knocking a stuck block off the wedge and much easier on the equipment.
But I think the splitter used is pretty good on tough blocks with a lot of curly crotch grain.
But thought the OP might have an interest based on his travelling splitter scheme.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Logging logginglogging

I went to their website and couldent fing that thing or a price on it. if it were comparable to a woodsplitter price I could see some intrest

muddstopper

Quote from: beenthere on September 10, 2012, 02:05:07 PM
Have you looked at the Logrite splitter? They have moving logs to the processor well covered, as well as the portability, are quick, and reasonably priced. If I were to go "on the road", it would be my choice.
Only a vehicle to tow it from place to place.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,53648.0.html

Any pics of your trip?

Plenty of pics, we used up 4gb memory cards on 2 cameras, three of those throw away pocket cameras, and about 8gb of video. My wife is a big Luara Ingle Wilder fan so we went to Mansfield Mo where all the Little House books where written, then the poney express at St Joshep Mo, then Souix fall Sd then DeSmet Sd for another Wilder homesite, then Rapid city Sd for Mt Rushmore and the Cheif Crazy Horse Monuments, Custer St park. Then we headed to YellowStone Wy, Staying at Cody then Jackson Hole and The Grand Tetons. Headed home thru Cheyenne Wy, Lincoln Nebraska, St Louis Mo. Pretty big loop, lot of pics of wildlife and country side, but we just got home in NC and havent processed any of the pics onto the computer yet.

I have seen the splitters like in you video links before. They are not for me, to much having to handle the wood picking up all that weight. I have a very capable splitter with adjustable 4way wedge that will work me to death if I let it. I have no intentions of hireing out to split other folks wood with it, I built it for my own use only and the only time it leaves my place is to help a disabled buddy of mine split his wood.

As with getting older, I continue to look for easier ways to get the work done. I have been rounding up the materials to build myself a processor to replace my splitter. Chainsaws kill my back these days and lifting large rounds onto the splitter are just as bad. I figure if I build the processor that I might use it for hire, as long as I can take it to somewhere other than my property. I simply dont want the mess associated with cutting and splitting firewood in my back yard.

I have looked at just about every commercial and home built machine that is on the internet. Some are just not feasible to own because of price and volume that they can produce. Others, and this includes a lot of the smaller commercial machines, dont have the size capacity of round dia to process the wood I normally get. I usually go to logging sights and get the cull buck cuts from their buck saw. This is usually the knottest, crooked stuff they cant sell, and they will load them on my truck just to get them hualed off their log landing. Since I cant afford a factory machine capable of processing this type of wood, and its to big to keep handleing by hand on my wood splitter, I am just going to build a processor that will do what I need it to do. This machine will cost to build and I am hopeing to recoupe some of my investment by hireing the machine out. Like others have said, almost everywhere I have been, I always see large truckloads of wood dumped off in peoples back yards and fields to be used as firewood. If I can make my machine portable enough to move with little cost, and capable enought to process that wood efficently, then I should be able to make some money processing firewood on site.  Even If I never hire it out, it should make processing my own wood a much easier, faster, chore. Which is what I am really after.

gunman63

if your  using  a processor i would charge $50 a cord even  by the time u set up move,etc, its only $5-600 for a days  work  on most processors, now with that in mind, i quit using my processor, and hired the menonites , I pay them $25 a cord, they supply saws, gas, parts, mauls, yes  mauls, they  spilt it all by hand, i have to pick them up and bring them home, they  work from  8am to 6 pm,   and  do 20-25 cords a day its the  dad, about 40 yo , and his  4 boys, 12 thru 18, some days only 3 boys . they  just  throw it to the  side and behind them as they move thru the piles,  best firewood  proessor there is!

muddstopper

Around here, we dont have any Menonites, hard to even hire good hispanics. Most of the folks I feel that might hire someone with a processor are the snowbirds from up north and the Florida folks that have bought up all the land. Neither group wants to pay what the work is worth, but I solved the pay problem years ago. They pay or I dont work, deposits up front and signed contracts. You put a lien on their property and they pay up pretty quick. 

The $50 per cord is about what I figured, but once I get the processor built and can see my actual cost in material and maintenance, as well as time involved, I can adjust my prices accordingly. I have found its better to start out high and come down on prices if you have to, than start out low and try to raise prices later.

blackfoot griz

Another couple of variables to factor in are:
What happens with the split stuff?  It can pile up quickly!

For my own wood & processor--working alone,  I seem to spend  a lot more time with the split stuff than running the machine.

Mudstopper, if you get a minute, send me a pm.  I would like to hear about your trip! (You didn't quite make it this far :D

NWP

If you went from Lincoln NE to St. Louis you didn't miss me by much.  My wood yard is right along I-35 north of Kansas City MO.  I have done some custom processing in the past.  About a year ago was the last time.  It was about 10 miles from me.  I charged $100 per hour for the processor with the conveyor and a skid steer to load it.  Too cheap.  I probably would charge $125-150 next time.  The problem is the quality of the logs you get into.  People that aren't familiar with a processor don't realize that you can't just throw any old log on it and go.  So they don't cut and prep the logs properly with regard to knots, forks, bends etc.  Also if they have a lot of small logs, it takes just as long to run a log you're splitting into 2 or 4 pieces per cut as one you are getting 8 pieces per cut.  Therefore, the production is slower if you're charging per cord.  If I have to lay out logs for prep with a chainsaw, I keep on charging the hourly rate while I trim them up.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

muddstopper

I think at $100 per hr, one would have to process a lot of wood just to keep the customer happy. I also know from experience from doing work for other people, you have to have a minimum fee just to show up. It costs money to get there and back and a lot of folks just want to pay for what time you are actually on site. I dont have a clue just yet as to what my processor will be able to produce, I am shooting for 4cord per hr. Most of the truck loads I see piled up in peoples yards are around 4 cord loads. At $100 per hr, thats $100 per job. At $50 per cord, thats $200 per job. Of course I havent figured in any thing for actually getting the wood in the processor, or filiing chains, or cranking up the chainsaw, or, or, or etc.

I can see where the split stuff can be a problem. I get aggravated just running my splitter now. Split a couple of sticks and then stack, split and stack. Sure works better if you have someone catching as it comes off the blade. I am planning on adding a conveyor to carry the split stuff away from the machine, but that will be after I have the machine up and running with all the bugs worked out. In the mean time I am thinking about just backing my dump trailer under the splitting wedge and letting the wood pile up in it until it gets unmanageable and then just moving the wood to a dump pile.

gunman63

takes one  heck of  a processor to do 4 cords a hr, dont forget u have to  feed it too, or  hire a guy to do that,  if there isnt a  semi load in a pile , it wouldnt be  worth moving there,  and then even at that,  dont see how u  can make any money  to speak of after your expenses

NWP

My processor is advertised at 3-4 cords per hour, but I figure I average 2 per hour due to different variables.  $100 or more per hour may seem like a lot to the customer, but if they are paying $50 per cord to process their own wood, that's a lot cheaper than paying $200 buying it per cord.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

muddstopper

I have a lot of stuff in my head that might not work as I intended. Aiming for 4cord per hr and getting 4 cord per hr are two different animals. I will have a saw capable of 25hp to do the cutting with. The cutting seems to be the bottle neck on most of the processors I have seen, so hopefully I have that part handled.  Loading the processor is where I am still having problems figureing out how to do it efficently. I dont want to have to make multiple trips hualing extra equipment just to keep the processor fed and using winches seems to be a slow method to load. In a perfect world I would like to have a small knuckel boom mounted on my tow truck to handle the firewood size logs, but $$ will prevent that from happening anytime soon. I did build a small verson of a knuckelboom and mounted it on my wood splitter, but It kept breaking the bottom mount every time I would pickup a log. Other than that, it seemed to have enough power for firewood size logs and when I get around to beefing up the mount, a heavier verson for the truck might do what I need. Trail and error until I get it right I guess. I did see a trencher backhoe attachment at the scrap yard yesterday I think could be modified to work as a knuckelboom, simply remove the bucket and mount a grapple in its place. It already has all the hydraulic valves and cyl, as well as outriggers, and I could power it with a PTO on the truck. I'll have to check it out a little more, if I get the model number I should be able to find its lift capacity. 

stumper

What type of saw are you considering?  I might suggest that you use a circular saw.  Yes, a chain type is more compact but it also has a lot more issues.

Shooting for 4 cords is a great goal.  You may be successfull in reaching that goal for a short period with everything in your favor but do not plan your business on that production rate.  Just like with sawmills those who write the advertising for saw mills are going to tell you you can mill upto 4,000 board feet in a day with their great mill but everything has to be just right and those days are few and far between.

One thing to consider is how you do your pricing.  You can price by the cord or by the hour.  If you go by the hour you are sure of a set rate.  If you go by the cord your rate will depend on how hard you work.  Your rates will potentially be a lot hire by the cord if you work hard and smart, but will be lower if you hit problems.  I am not in favor of buy the hour.  It is a lower risk but also a lower reward.

muddstopper

Stumper, you make some good points. I have worked construction enough years to know that everything doesnt always go according to plan. You know what they say, "The best laid plans of mice and men".

I did consider the circular saw, but the cost of buying a blade big enough to process anything bigger then 16in wood is pretty steep. Not to mention the increase in hydraulics and power plant necessary to power a large circular blade. A .404 bar and chain can easily be assembled at a lower entry price range than going with the circular saw. I also can get parts locally for the chainsaw type where as for a circular blade, I dont even know where to start looking. Yes, circular blades cut fast and stay sharper longer, but wait until you have to replace the teeth, or have them sharpened, or have your blade retrued and the cost pretty much even out.

At any rate, my goal is not to go into processing firewood full time. I am wanting to build a machine to suit my personal needs and only hire it out, occassionally, to help recoupe some of my investment. With that goal in mind, I can pick and choose whose wood pile I take my machine to. If I see a pile of logs all covered in mud, dumped somewhere in a soupy mudhole, and stems sticking up everywhich way, I'll simply say no or charge accordingly. As for proper priceing, that is why I started this thread, to find out what the going rate is and I appreciate all the advice I have been given.

One thing is certain, until I get my machine built and have had time to operate it, I really wont know anything about how much wood I can process, or what it will cost me to process it. Until then, all I can do is ask questions and listen to what everybody has to say on the subject.

trapper

Dont remeber the brand but at the logging congress  saw a processor that had a log deck that could be used horizantal and loaded with a forklift or the outer legs removed and the chains that moved the logs foreward raised the logs from the ground.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Ford_man

I have a small processor that is said to do 2 cords per hr. I have run 2 per hr for a short period of time, it also took 1 man loading the deck and 2 good men stacking off the conveyor. It has a 13ft con, you can run 1.5 cord before you have to move the processor. My best day has been 10 cords with 2 men stacking, Knots and crooked logs cause hang ups. splitwood_smiley

muddstopper

At this point, I really need to quit talking about it and get started building. I have a lot of weird ideals on how I plan on building this thing, some might work and others, well, we'll just see. I will probably go ahead and order my bar, chain and sprocket this week. This will be my biggest capital outlay to start this project and the most important part to get right first. If my saw works as intended, the rest will be a pretty straight forward build. I have the hbeam, engine, and most of the hydraulic parts already on hand, as well as some of the steel and the trailer to mount it on, and a new lincoln Idealarc welder that needs to burn a few rods.

John Mc

One way of looking at what to charge for processing:  look a what folks are charging for log-length firewood, vs cut and split.  Since you don't have to haul the firewood to them, that's a bit of savings on your end.  On the other hand, you are having to deal with whatever mess their logs are in... you can't count on always finding a nicely stacked pile of telephone-pole straight logs.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

TJ Timber

I do that as a side job. It depends how much people are willing to pay in your area. I use my processor all summer and fall till the snow starts falling. One thing I'll tell ya is , it's a lot of hard work. It all has a monetary value.

muddstopper

Quote from: John Mc on September 16, 2012, 09:08:38 PM
One way of looking at what to charge for processing:  look a what folks are charging for log-length firewood, vs cut and split.  Since you don't have to haul the firewood to them, that's a bit of savings on your end.  On the other hand, you are having to deal with whatever mess their logs are in... you can't count on always finding a nicely stacked pile of telephone-pole straight logs.

The last load of wood I bought cost me $400. It was log lenght and appox 4 cord, all mixed hardwood. One thing about cutting and splitting wood is always the mess. Sawdust, bark and wood chips. We used the chip and pieces as kindling to start or rekindle a fire. We always have more kindling than we need. This material has a tendency to layaround the wood pile and makes a mess everytime you walk thru it and track it in the house. For this reason, I only spilt my wood at home and dont sell any wood to anybody else. As for a processor, you go to somebody elses residence, split their wood and leave the mess behind when you go home. I can assume that they would pay pretty close to what I would pay for a similar load of logs and the payment would have to be based on the work I would actually do, the sawing and spliting. They can stack their own wood, cause I aint going to. Also, if I drive up to a work site and see a huge mess of twisted muddy logs, I aint going to deal with that either. Extra work means higher prices, dirty logs means higher expenses. I know this doesnt sound like anyway to build a business, but I only want to recoupe some of the cost of building the processor, not process firewood for a business. I'll give a days work for a days pay, but I can sort of choose the days I want to work to. 

John Mc

Muddstopper -

You sound a little upset with my suggestion.  I was not in any way trying to tell you how to run your business, or what jobs to take.  I was just trying to provide some food for thought on how much to charge, which is what you asked for.

If you are processing someone else's logs, one indication of what folks are willing to pay is by checking out the difference between the market prices for log length firewood, and cut and split firewood.  The difference is at least one indication of how the market values the processing part of firewood.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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