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WM Debarker wont go in/out *SOLVED*

Started by JustinW_NZ, September 06, 2012, 05:42:27 AM

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JustinW_NZ

Hello all

My dearker isnt going in/out on my LT-40 for some reason
It seems to when the mill is first turned on it will go in/out maybe once then just stop.
Ive searched the forum and people commented on the grease/pivit being to stiff
Ive cleaned that out and given it a light grease and it seems to move by hand nicely.
also put 12v onto the in/out motor and it appears to turn fine.

How tight does the belt need to be on the top? - do they stop working if to tight?
the belt on mine is pretty old and crusty but not sure if that makes a big difference?
And im guessing the switch on the control panel end could go faulty? (havent eyballed that)
Anyone seen that?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

Meadows Miller

Gday Justin

Sorry I cant help you  :( as I have only ran one with a debarker and that was Jake's 70s Mate  ;) Im sure afew of the boys will be along shortly to help you sort it out Mate

Is it just not engaging starting and moving across and is the blade starting  ??? Like you said it could just be a switch or a chaffed wire somewhere Mate  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

JustinW_NZ

Quote from: Meadows Miller on September 06, 2012, 06:14:56 AM
Gday Justin

Sorry I cant help you  :( as I have only ran one with a debarker and that was Jake's 70s Mate  ;) Im sure afew of the boys will be along shortly to help you sort it out Mate

Is it just not engaging starting and moving across and is the blade starting  ??? Like you said it could just be a switch or a chaffed wire somewhere Mate  ;)

Regards Chris

Im more than sure someone will have had some issue with these :)
But yes, the debarker comes on fine, just doesnt swing into the log or out again...

Hows that New mill treating you?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

Kansas

I think I would check the electrical current coming out of the switch to start with. If it is good, check connections at the debarker. I am sure the Woodmizer guys will give you better advice. If its a belt problem, you should see it slipping.

I don't think you can run any Woodmizer or similar type mill without a good electrical checker.

Magicman

It sounds like you need to do some testing to determine that the in/out switch is good and that it is supplying 12 VDC to the small in/out motor.  If it is, then the motor brushes/etc could be faulty.  WM sells a brush rebuild kit for the in/out motor.

This may not be an issue with your present problem, but always remember that the debarker is heavy.  The sawmill needs to always be set up "loader side high" which will allow the weight of the debarker to help the blade to contact the log.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bibbyman

If you can hear the little in/out motor running, then check to see if the belt is slipping.  Also, the pin in the little pulley could be sheared. Even sheared, it could get enough traction to move a little.  The pin in our debarker sheared long ago. I just replaced it with a 16d nail,shortened.   That shears about every 6 months but is easy to replace.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

drobertson

I agree, I would check the little  motor, I had to replace mine  a few years ago. easy fix.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Meadows Miller




Hows that New mill treating you?

Cheers
Justin
[/quote]

Well its not home yet  ::) :'( New to Me trucks going on the road Tomorrow then Ill shot down to pick it up Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Chuck White

The debarker most likely will swing good when the pulley on the motor is cold, but once it gets warm from use, it will be more prone to slipping.

Take the top cover off and watch the motor for slippage while someone moves the debarker in and out!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

woodyone.john

when i took a close look at the belt on mine i could see that it wasnt good .my bet is change the belt they do need to be tight cheers john
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

JustinW_NZ

Cheers for the comments guys, I will be checking the switch and such over the weekend but im guessing thats the issue, im hoping its not the motor itself.

Will post with the what the problem was when i find it  :)

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

JustinW_NZ

Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

customsawyer

I wish I could help but it has been to long since I have worked with a LT 40. I can't remember exactly how they are different I just know that they are. One of the first things I would do is get someone to move the switch while you watch the little motor. If it is turning but the debarker is not moving then the problem will be with the belt or the pin. If it isn't moving then the problem will be electrical.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Brucer

You didn't mention the circuit breaker, so I assume it isn't tripping. However, just in case ...

Just after I installed the autoclutch on my mill, the debarker in/out circuit breaker started tripping out. After several resets and some careful testing, I discovered it would only trip when I tried to move it out while the clutch was engaged. That bit of knowledge at least allowed me to get through the job I was working on.

It occured to me that this would probably be caused by a short -- something biting through the insulation on one of the wires to the in/out motor. Since the polarity on the wires is reversed when the switch is thrown, that would suggest just one wire was causing the problem. Furthermore, the fact that the clutch had to be engaged (i.e., engine up) suggested that the upward motion of the engine mounting plate was causing the culprit wire to contact the frame.

I finally tracked it down to the point where the wire harness passed under the alternator belt cover. The cover had a sharp edge and every time the clutch was engaged, the edge would bite into one of the debarker wires. And then I remembered that just before I installed the autoclutch, I had to replace the alternator belt. Obviously I had shifted the position of the alternator belt guard when I replaced the belt.

So a little work with a file rounding off sharp edges, plus a little electrical tape to cover the break in the insulation, and the problem was solved.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

customsawyer

I didn't mention the breaker because he never said anything about having to reset it. ;)
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

JustinW_NZ

yes, isnt the breaker as the issue, im thinking more the switch or something there.

although the previous owner of the mill wasnt big on maintainence so I wont be to surprised with something weird  >:(

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

jcbrotz

If it is going in/out once more than likely its not the motor. As stated before have someone run the switch and you watch the motor. I was having a problem with mine and it had a grove wore in the belt from the motor that stopped it from moving all the time, I moved the position of the belt, tensioned it up and it got me thru the day and I stopped at NAPA on the way home.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

JustinW_NZ

any way to tell inside the in/out motor is there toast?
I applied 12v directly to my one the other day and it ran ok, BUT that was with no load on it as it was off the mill...

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

jcbrotz

Quote from: JustinW_NZ on September 08, 2012, 05:24:52 AM
any way to tell inside the in/out motor is there toast?
I applied 12v directly to my one the other day and it ran ok, BUT that was with no load on it as it was off the mill...

Cheers
Justin

If it ran with no load, it isn't completely shot, the brushes if short will cause low/no power but we need to know if you have 12 to the motor when on the mill. IF you are the only person there at the mill then its as simple as a 12 test light hook it to the motor lead and hit the in/out switch if it lights then the circuit is good if not  then you have an electrical issue from the leads back. I would have to have some more info to give better help but this will get you started.
2004 woodmizer lt40hd 33hp kubota, Cat 262B skidsteer and way to many tractors to list. www.Brotzmanswoodworks.com and www.Brotzmanscenturyfarm.com

Full Circle

I haven't worked on the debarker, but my head travel belt wore out because it was too loose.  Once worn, I couldn't tighten it enough to make it work.  It's the sides (or width) of the belt that grabs the pulley.  If the debarker belt is the same, and you said yours is "old and crusty," I would start there like the others have said.  It could be glazed and slipping.  While it's off, the pulley pin Bibby mentioned is an easy check.

If you want a REALLY quick and dirty (literally, dirty) belt test, spray the pulley/belt with some belt dressing if you have some.  It got me by with my belt issues until I could replace the belt.
-Roy



fullcirclefarmandforest.com

NMFP

I had a similar problem with my debarker.  The first issue was that the shaft on the small 12v motor was shot.  When it was originally manufactured and the small pulley driven on it with a pin, the pin was not centered and was actually offset which made for some severe wear on the motor shaft.  Took the shaft out, took it to a machine shop and had them machine a new shaft correctly with the hole bored exactly center.  Reassembled and has worked great for almost 5 years now.

The other problem is that sometimes, the debarker will not swing in completely to make contact with the log.  If I would hand push it a little it would but then would start to stop working again.  Took everything apart like WM recomended, lubricated and reassembled and still had the problem.  Made many phone calls and irritation was starting to set in so..... I experiemented with a bungee cord.  Hooked it to the debarker and the frame of the mill and it worked great so.... I decided to take the spring off the debarker and replace it with a spring I found at Tractor supply.  Much more tension and works great.

I believe the WM engineering is the best of the mill manufacturers out there but the debarker could be built heavier.  Larger in and out motor and heavier spring to push the debarker in and out.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: NMFP on September 08, 2012, 09:04:17 PM
I had a similar problem with my debarker.  The first issue was that the shaft on the small 12v motor was shot.  When it was originally manufactured and the small pulley driven on it with a pin, the pin was not centered and was actually offset which made for some severe wear on the motor shaft.  Took the shaft out, took it to a machine shop and had them machine a new shaft correctly with the hole bored exactly center.  Reassembled and has worked great for almost 5 years now.

The other problem is that sometimes, the debarker will not swing in completely to make contact with the log.  If I would hand push it a little it would but then would start to stop working again.  Took everything apart like WM recomended, lubricated and reassembled and still had the problem.  Made many phone calls and irritation was starting to set in so..... I experiemented with a bungee cord.  Hooked it to the debarker and the frame of the mill and it worked great so.... I decided to take the spring off the debarker and replace it with a spring I found at Tractor supply.  Much more tension and works great.

I believe the WM engineering is the best of the mill manufacturers out there but the debarker could be built heavier.  Larger in and out motor and heavier spring to push the debarker in and out.

I don't know your mill but could it be your spring had a little age on it causing it not to engage the debarker properly? The reason I ask is because I can actually SLAM my debarker into the log......but I don't.  :) I'm just saying my spring really works well and I was trying to figure out why your spring didn't perform right.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

NMFP

My mill was built in 99 and from what WM has told me, I have the first generation debarker and not a later model.  I cannot remember the gentlemans name I spoke with but he did say there were issues with the earlier models and they were the reasons for upgrades. 

No matter what you buy, you will always find ways to upgrade or improve upon design.  This is life. 

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: NMFP on September 08, 2012, 09:20:30 PM
My mill was built in 99 and from what WM has told me, I have the first generation debarker and not a later model.  I cannot remember the gentlemans name I spoke with but he did say there were issues with the earlier models and they were the reasons for upgrades. 

No matter what you buy, you will always find ways to upgrade or improve upon design.  This is life.

Thanks NMFP, and as Paul Harvey used to say....Now I know the rest of the story.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Magicman

I am running a '98 model every day I saw.  I don't know how it could be any better. 

In your situation, I have not heard any diagnostic results yet to tell whether your in/out motor is running or anything else.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MartyParsons

Hello,
The early Debarker named (Mark I) is a belt drive. The Mark II is direct drive.
Here is a paper from 1999

A kit is now available to retrofit a MKI Debarker to MKII specifications on all '97 model mills
(LT25 Rev. C2.00, LT30 Rev. F7.00, LT40 Rev. F8.00, LT30HD/40HD Rev. G1.00, LT30 Super
Rev. F7.00, LT40 Super Rev. F8.00, LT30HD/40HD Super Rev. G1.00 and later).
This kit may also be used to retrofit a MKI Debarker on a mill model prior to '97, but be aware
that the additional weight of the MKII Debarker head may cause the up/down motor on these
mills to experience current overload, motor trip, or a shorter life span.
The retrofit kit includes a MKII arm weldment, cutting head with guard, tension spring, mounting
fasteners, and instructions. See Form 877 for a detailed parts listing.

This part # is 016205 $813.00  todays cost.

The original question is the debarker will not go in or out.  I see some of the big pulleys rust from moisture and I always try to make sure to clean the pulley and bushing. Most times the belt will form to the pulley and I turn the belt to another location. The belt never turns more than a few inches.
You should hear the motor run and see the motor pulley turn, if the belt is not moving then something may be rusted. The spring rod should move in and out when the debarker is held in place or locked in the travel position.  If the motor only turns one way then you have an electrical problem in the brush. The end of the small motor includes the brushes is available from WM.

Hope this helps.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

barbender

I have the same mill, and I had to take the debarker pivot apart and clean all the old grease out of it. Even though it seemed like it swung ok by hand, it was gummed up enough it was impeding the swing. I saw Marty Parsons post somewhere that mills that are out in the weather tend to get this problem. My .02.
Too many irons in the fire

Magicman

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but do no overlook the fact that the debarker is heavy.  When the sawmill is set up with the loader side a bit higher, the debarker weight will help it swing into and contact the log.

Mine is a MKII.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

JustinW_NZ

ok, tested power at the motor - none there with someone flicking the switch
Then tested behind the switch
Flick the switch and the feed to the motor from the switch comes up with 12v
so im guessing theres a wire out in the middle somewhere.

Which after the a big smoke up with wiring we had a while ago it could have happened then.

So I will pull the wire out and replace and see how we go (ran out of time today)

Thanks for the comments so far :)

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

JustinW_NZ

Problem was a short in the wiring loom from the console that was damaged with some others during a bad power fault AND a dodgy joiner coming apart on the arm heading to the in/out motor.

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

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