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Locust fence posts 4x6x8', thoughts on pricing?

Started by Delawhere Jack, August 31, 2012, 08:11:42 PM

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Delawhere Jack

A guy that I deal with is interested in having me mill locust fence posts. He does tree work, cleanup and sells logs to some Amish mills near Lancaster PA. I told him that if he stockpiles the locust until he's got enough to keep me milling for a full day or more we can work a deal that is good for both of us.

He's thinking these posts, 4x6x8' would go for $15 each. I'm thinking that's a little low. I haven't been able to find any good pricing on these. Can anyone tell me an actual recent market price on these? I'm not so concerned about my cut, but I think he may be letting them go too cheap.

hackberry jake

If you take a piece of cooked spaghetti and throw it on the wall, you would have the average shape of locust around where I live. Around here they also start getting a hollow spot at around 12-16" dbh. So to get enough good locust logs would be a chore. The best locust tree I have felt with made two 14" 6x8s with quite a bit of bark on the second one, so I'm not saying its impossible, just difficult. I would shoot for closer to $20 and if they aren't selling you can lower your price. Price reduced! Sounds much better than price increased!
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woodmills1

that would be under a dollar per bd ft

I get a buck and a half for oak


wish there was more locust here

have some white cedar and I get at least a buck, sometimes 2 for it

I would say $24 is a buck and a half

$20 for quantity
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drobertson

I know allot of folks use the locust for raised beds as well, as treated timbers don't go well for organic farmers. If you can cut them, strip them and wait a bit and see where it goes, they will sell, just don't give them away,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: hackberry jake on August 31, 2012, 08:31:18 PM
If you take a piece of cooked spaghetti and throw it on the wall, you would have the average shape of locust around where I live.

I'd say more like a handful of spaghetti, tied in a knot and then twisted and thrown at the wall. It's a reall brain twister trying to figure how to cut it to get the most posts.

I'd like to be able to mill for this guy so that we're both happy, but if he gets logs that are as poor quality as what I've milled so far I might need to turn it down. I'll work cheap to fill in the slow times, but I'm not going to work for starvation wages... :-\

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: drobertson on August 31, 2012, 08:48:32 PM
I know allot of folks use the locust for raised beds as well, as treated timbers don't go well for organic farmers. If you can cut them, strip them and wait a bit and see where it goes, they will sell, just don't give them away,

Raised beds.... Ah Ha!! Thanks DR, hadn't thought of that. I love this forum! :)

Full Circle

I had a nice supply of locust that was, for lack of better terms, pulled out from under me about a year ago.  My thoughts were posts (4x4, 6X6, of different lengths), lumber, and firewood for the rest.  Raised bed material was part of the plan.  I did manage to get some nice saw logs out if it and have milled a decent amount of locust over the years.  Anyway, as you have mentioned, it really all depends on the logs.   If they are of a diameter that you'll have to work to get the 4x6, then I suggest you plan on making 4 cuts and the wane will be what it will be...the straighter the log, the less wane.  They are fence posts, after all.  If you have larger logs, make the raised bed material while working down to the 4x6.  Again, for raised beds, wane should be acceptable.  Especially since one side will be concealed by soil.  If you have sufficient quantity, maybe you could sort the posts/boards into two grades and price them accordingly.  For the posts that have too much wane, if you can get 4 feet of  length, 4x6x 4 foot could be used for raised bed boxes, 4 feet square.  You could cut them to length, pre-drill the holes, supply some lags, and sell them in "kit" form at a premium.  For longer raised beds, 4x6 is overkill. 6/4 or 8/4 is adequate and easier to handle because of the weight.  What I found with the smaller, locust logs is that if you try to split a waney 4x6 in to two 2X6's, there is a very good chance they will both bow pretty badly, but your experience may be different.

That's just a long way of saying it all depends on the logs, and throwing in some ideas to go with it.... :) 
-Roy



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dgdrls

Local mill here gets $20.25 which I believe is a deal.

DGDrls

Ron Wenrich

We're charging $7 for a 4x4 post.  4x6 seems a little heavy for the average post. 

Your competition is the local stores that sell treated posts or landscape timbers.  A 4x6x8 treated post at Lowe's is $14.  It will last longer than locust.  4x4x8 is going for $7.50.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on September 02, 2012, 07:10:34 AM
We're charging $7 for a 4x4 post.  4x6 seems a little heavy for the average post. 

Your competition is the local stores that sell treated posts or landscape timbers.  A 4x6x8 treated post at Lowe's is $14.  It will last longer than locust.  4x4x8 is going for $7.50.

They're used for horse fencing. No doubt it is a premium item compared to treated, but they look better, and some people just don't like using treated lumber.

HousewrightVA

We prefer locust posts for horse and cattle fencing. They last longer than treated pine because they dont crack and split as much. Good locust is harder to find and every log I get is cut for posts. When I buy them I generaly pay around $7 for 3X5s. 4X6s are a bit too heavy. It may be a regional thing but you would not sell a post for $15 in central VA.
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Cedarman

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on September 02, 2012, 07:10:34 AM
We're charging $7 for a 4x4 post.  4x6 seems a little heavy for the average post. 

Your competition is the local stores that sell treated posts or landscape timbers.  A 4x6x8 treated post at Lowe's is $14.  It will last longer than locust.  4x4x8 is going for $7.50.
Isn't that treated 4x4 actually a 3 1/2x 3 1/2 which has 30 % less wood than a true 4x4?  Equivalent pricing would make a 4x4 at $10. and a 4x6 at $15.00 which has 25% more wood than a 3 1/2 x 5 1/2.
We sell 1000's of true 4x4x8 cedar at $11.00 each for privacy fencing.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Ron Wenrich

You can cut them either way.  The consumer is the one that sets the price.  If you are too high, then they will buy the alternative.  For some consumers, the extra is worthwhile; for others, it isn't.  You just have to know your market and your competition.  I do know that if I cut thousands of locust posts and tried to market them for $11 each, I would have thousands of posts in my yard.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on September 02, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
The consumer is the one that sets the price.  If you are too high, then they will buy the alternative.  For some consumers, the extra is worthwhile; for others, it isn't. 

Exactly. My father once told me, you never know the true price of anything until money changes hands. I was just wanting to make sure that my "pardner" :) wasn't planning to let them go too cheap. I'd bill him the same to mill them either way, but if I help him put a few extra bucks in his pocket he might be more eager to bring work my way.

jcbrotz

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on September 02, 2012, 07:10:34 AM
We're charging $7 for a 4x4 post.  4x6 seems a little heavy for the average post. 

Your competition is the local stores that sell treated posts or landscape timbers.  A 4x6x8 treated post at Lowe's is $14.  It will last longer than locust.  4x4x8 is going for $7.50.

I will have to disagree that treated will last longer than locust, I will agree that you only get what someone is willing to pay and for locust I can get $1bdft and cant get logs fast enough. in the spring its raised beds the rest of the year just make what they want mostly 4x4's for fencing or deck boards if you can get good locust, thats hard in this neck of the woods.
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stavebuyer

When I first read this I thought; "thats a considerably higher price than they would bring locally" and secondly that "they really need to sell for that much to make a living cutting them on a bandmill". I am always amazed at some of the prices members of the forum are able to get for their lumber as I deal mostly with wholesale markets. Most of the neighboring mills produce wholesale as well but some accomodate small orders for a 25% or so premium to wholesale. Basically $.60 a bd/ft will buy you all the green oak/poplar/hemlock lumber you want in my area. Locust however is more of specialty item; especially sound woods grown locust with yellow heartwood. I have seen more than a few treated pine posts that didn't make it 10 years and seen heartwood cedar and locust posts still sound after half a century so. If I was building a fence I would pay a premium for good locust over box store treated. Just make sure you saw em when there fresh cut!


Norm

Black locust has been used around here for decades for fence posts. It will last much longer than any treated lumber you'll buy.

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