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You want what from this hickory?

Started by kelLOGg, August 27, 2012, 07:10:57 PM

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kelLOGg

I have a customer with a small hickory blow-down that is only 13" dia eight feet high from which he wants 4x4s centered on the heart for table legs. That set off a flag in my head so I told him that heart-centered lumber is generally not a good idea because it is prone to split upon drying and that he would be better off gluing 1" material to make a 4x4.  He said he would rely upon my judgement but I would like to give him what he asked for if it is at all reasonable. So, did I tell him correctly for hickory? I could probably saw two 4x4s with the heart on the edge but I'm hesitant to even do that. I have sawn lots of 1" boards from hickory but have no experience with 4" thick material.  He also wants 1", 1.5" and 2" material which I don't see as a problem. I will be air-drying it followed by DH drying.

Interestingly, he is in California, the tree is on his daughter's property in NC and he likes to have projects when he visits.

Bob



Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Personally, unless they ask me, I saw exactly what they ask for. Like I said in another post, every time I open my BIG MOUTH, it ends up costing me time and money.
Now if they ask....I will tell them what I know from my experience or what I have learned from the Forum.

But to answer your question, I have never sawn Hickory.

So to make a short story long....you are back to square 1.  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

tjhammer

bob
which would be better on hickory letting the logs dry before sawing as far as the lumber goes or saw them green,I have 3 logs 20 to30ft going from 25'' butt to 32'' I'm looking for cabinet and flooring material thanks
tj
hammer

WH_Conley

Saw them green and put on sticks to air or kiln dry.
Bill

kelLOGg

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on August 27, 2012, 07:27:26 PM
Personally, unless they ask me, I saw exactly what they ask for.

I can appreciate that advice, in general, but if they end up with unuseable crap the customer is not happy. Sometimes people just don't know what they are asking for for a variety of reasons. I see my role as educating them and fortunately I have the expertise of the FF at my disposal to educate me. So I try to pass it on.

Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

sealark37

I have done turned table legs both ways.  Your customer will not be pleased with a solid 4X4.  Your advice to glue up the blank with 1X lumber is the best way to proceed.  Hickory 4X4s with heart centered will end up as firewood.  Regards, Clark

dgdrls

Here is what the first piece of hickory I had do when I sawed across the pith.
I think 1" blanks glued would be a better choice.


DGDrls




5quarter

Bob...good call. I would forewarn him that after drying he will likely have some loss. in the end, there may not be a whole lot to build with. just sayin...
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Okrafarmer

If you cut it 5" X 5" you should be able to plane it down to a nice 4X4 after it dries. Besides, he said table legs, right? They are short, so if there is a little bow in the long piece, it will not be very noticeable when it dries.

But what do I know? I never tried hickory 4X4's.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Along this line, with hickory, or other species, is it a bad idea to cut multiple 4X4's out of the same log? I have done it with sweetgum to make utility beams to throw logs on, and so forth. I got 4 4X4's from one SG log, and have been using them for a couple years. They're starting to rot now, of course, from being outside most of that time in contact with the ground. But they held together fairly well and with only a little warping. (to be expected from SG, I hear).
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Dodgy Loner

You were correct to advise him against heart-centered posts. But it sounds like you could get what you need from the log and avoid the pith. Table legs are so short that if the posts bow a little it won't hurt a thing. It will easily plane out if you cut the 4x4s maybe 1/2" oversize. If I were trying to get solid table legs out of a hickory with a 13" small end, I would basically try to cut down until I had a 10" x whatever cant, then I would take side lumber off the cant until it was about 4.5" x 10", with the heart centered in the cant, then I would stand it up and take two 4.5" x 4.5" beams from either end, trying to contain as much of the pith in a 1" x 4.5" waste cut from the middle. Does that make any sense ??? Anyway, that's how I envision it.

By the way, there is nothing I hate more than gluing up 1" boards to make a thick post. It's tedious and it looks awful, unless you make it even more tedious by doing something like this...

(cross-sectional view)


...which hides the glue lines.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

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kelLOGg

Quote from: tjhammer on August 27, 2012, 08:09:28 PM
bob
which would be better on hickory letting the logs dry before sawing as far as the lumber goes or saw them green,I have 3 logs 20 to30ft going from 25'' butt to 32'' I'm looking for cabinet and flooring material thanks
tj

WH is right. Always saw green if you can. I've done hickory flooring too and it is very nice.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Tree Feller

Unless they are a laminated glue-up, table legs are most often rift sawn so that the grain looks the same on all four sides. Leaving the pith would be a recipe for disaster.

You told him right. Did you also tell him how long it will take to properly dry a 12/4 blank?
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
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Meadows Miller

Gday

I would board off the 1",1.5" and 2" boards of each side of the log to within 2" of the heart and just go for two 4x4 posts and the other thicknesses he wants still gets solid free of heart  posts out of a 13" dia logs and apart from the drying time all should be good I have used semi green large section timber in furniture  for years you just have to allow for it  and a 4x4 post should be fine ;)

Regards Chris

4TH Generation Timbergetter

drobertson

I had a fellow that is into the mountain man black powder events. He wanted some hickory just as you described. I cut what he wanted and they warped to beat the band. He said he expected it, and no big deal, but a different story with finished table legs for sure. Fine funiture needs to be fine. Lots of finish work is why it is so pretty, and expensive to buy.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WDH

Heart centered posts in that dimension, especially in hickory, will split!  Can you imagine the splits, cracks, and checks in a 4x4 heart centered red oak timber?  No?  Then I can send you some pictures  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

Quote from: WDH on August 28, 2012, 11:12:03 PM
Heart centered posts in that dimension, especially in hickory, will split!  Can you imagine the splits, cracks, and checks in a 4x4 heart centered red oak timber?  No?  Then I can send you some pictures  :D.

I thought we were supposed to box the heart so it wouldn't split.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

drobertson

 In all I have cut, I have had many red , white  and pine  4 by 4's really act good. but this said I have had some just go freaking crazy too.  when the outside boards come off one must see the stress in the log.  If stress is present, well then there is not much one can do, maybe fire wood, unless you can deal with it.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

beenthere

QuoteI thought we were supposed to box the heart so it wouldn't split.

I think "box the heart" so the piece has a best chance to stay straight (balancing growth stresses).

For a structural post, the radial drying checks won't affect the post strength. But those checks in a table leg would not be pretty.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

Yes, I am voting on the Beenthere Platform on this one.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

petefrom bearswamp

I sawed a dead Hickory last summer, end coated with Anchor seal and it still split badly.
mostly 4/4 with a few 8/4.
Don't know what I'm going to do with it yet it is stickered and covered in my lumber yard.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
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3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Okrafarmer

So the best thing to do with a hickory is just throw the whole middle out (use for firewood, etc.)?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Magicman

I have sawed some beautiful Hickory lumber, and have seen some beautiful Hickory flooring, but I still have my idea about what is the best thing to do with Hickory.   fire_smiley
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Magicman on August 29, 2012, 08:53:31 AM
I have sawed some beautiful Hickory lumber, and have seen some beautiful Hickory flooring, but I still have my idea about what is the best thing to do with Hickory.   fire_smiley

Tool handles.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Meadows Miller

Gday

Boxing the heart is the only way you can do it but it will be pushing it for even getting the 2 4x4s of each side of it but it can be done even by going alittle into the 4" heart no more than 1/4 though  in section if the tree has good strait heart form but I have only sawn a few Hickory logs but delt with heaps of other species similar  ;) some of you would have noticed at both Jake's and Lynn's Lucas Days  I took the hear out in low grade boards 4 to 5" wide by whatever the thickness was that i was q/sawing out of the center 3rd  ;) alot of big mills will just keep sawing through the heart dose wonders for recovery but not quality  in hardwoods :) ::) ::) and its not the way things are done in my book the center 4x4" heart section is low grade material juvi/young wood which is from when the tree is forming can have reactive wood in drying and wondering heart nice stuff like that to deal with there are species and section sizes that you are able to saw with heart in though  ;)

Question is he planing on dressing down to 3 &1/2 square  ??? as you can pinch it it out on that too  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

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