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Lt28 or save up for an Lt40 Super?

Started by Dustin, August 20, 2012, 09:04:05 PM

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Dustin

I have the chance to buy an 2003 Lt28 with 1800 hrs for 10 grand. The great thing is its only 15 mins away to pick up and I would only be the 3rd owner. I know the first owner and the owner now. The saw is in good condition from what I could tell and cuts smooth and even. My question is, should I get the lt28 to start out with and get my feet wet and learn to saw? I'm not sure what the bank will say when I ask for more money when I just got started on a house remodel project. Also, the wife hasn't gave her final blessing in the matter quiet yet either. What are your guys thoughts and opinions?
Richardson Sawmill
'20 Wood-Mizer LT50HD Wide
Husqvarna 390XP and 450 chainsaws

Just getting started but already know I have an addiction problem.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Well your building a house.....you have a wife......you don't know what the bank may say.....
Buy whatever will keep you comfortable MONEY wise and HONEY wise smiley_love .  :D

Personally I would save for the LT40 or talk to WOODMIZER about their financing.

But do whatever is comfortable to let you sleep good at night.  smiley_sleeping smiley_sleeping
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

nas

I don't think that is a bad price if it is in good shape, but it is not a great price.  I think you could get a used mill with hydraulics for not a whole lot more if you have the time to wait.

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

Dustin

That is kind of what I thought on the price with-out the hydraulic log loader. One of the main reasons I want a 40 is for the loader. Is it better to learn on a lt28 or just learn on a lt40?
Richardson Sawmill
'20 Wood-Mizer LT50HD Wide
Husqvarna 390XP and 450 chainsaws

Just getting started but already know I have an addiction problem.

Bibbyman

Did the previous owners trade up to an HD mill or just quit sawing?

The 28 would be less of a risk if you decide you don't want to be a sawyer.

Learning to saw on a 28 would be easier because it's far less completed.

Mary and I sawed on an LT40 manual for 7 years.  We bought an old LT40 Super and there was some getting use to. The the Super with Command Control, Accuset and other options. There was a learning curve just to operate the mill effectively.

On the other hand, money is cheap to borrow right now.  I'd borrow and buy now.  If inflation takes off, you may not be able to save enough to catch up with price increase.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

dgdrls

What nas indicated,   I would say check the WM website and current $ on new mills,

DGDrls



Ianab

I'd be tempted by the cheaper manual mill if you are just starting out and learning to saw.

If you decide you want more mill next year, you should get most of your money back.

If you give up sawing, you should get most of your money back...

Or it may do everything you need a mill to do, and you will get years of good use out of it...

Of course you should haggle over the price, and check around for any better deals that are going.  ;)

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Dustin

This is the mill he started out with and is now running an lt 70 and on the road for months at a time. The lt 28 is just sitting in the barn and taking up space. Bibby how much of a learning curve is it stepping up to a lt40?
Richardson Sawmill
'20 Wood-Mizer LT50HD Wide
Husqvarna 390XP and 450 chainsaws

Just getting started but already know I have an addiction problem.

Magicman

You need to draw a "dollar line" somewhere and remember why you want/need a sawmill.  Sure, bigger and more options is better, but they never end.  Look at the ability to make a return on your investment.  Everyone's financial situation is different, so the decision is yours.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dustin

Yep Magic I think the wife will have the last say in this decision on what the price is. I know if I won't  get her project done, the mill is a no go. I would be fine with that too since we made a deal that the house was to get done before I bought a mill. This just popped up out of the blue.  ;D
Richardson Sawmill
'20 Wood-Mizer LT50HD Wide
Husqvarna 390XP and 450 chainsaws

Just getting started but already know I have an addiction problem.

Leigh Family Farm

Quote from: Dustin on August 20, 2012, 10:15:47 PM
...I would be fine with that too since we made a deal that the house was to get done before I bought a mill. This just popped up out of the blue.  ;D

Funny how our wives, though they have never met, have the same condition on buying a mill!  :)
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

Meadows Miller

Gday

I would say go the Lt28 for the reasons stated above plus I personally feel that learning on a manual mill and working your way up is the way to learn to become A Sawyer it also lets you grow as you go   ;) ;D ;D 8)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

terrifictimbersllc

My opinion:  If this is a hobby you will likely saw more wood than you could ever use with either machine.  The decision is about how much to spend and how much $$ you have tied up in a hobby machine. Not about the learning curve or whether to  have manual or hydraulic.   If going into business the decision is not about those either (forget the manual, get a hydraulic).  If going into business the decision is whether to go into business and the learning curve is how to be in business.  If you're not sure then it's back to how much $$ you might want tied up in a hobby sawmill.  You might regret the $$ part but you won't regret the hydraulics. Good luck.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

drobertson

It really is sad that everything always boils down to the green backs.  If you stay with the manual mill, try to pick the brains on some of the folks that have ran them for awhile, I am sure there are plenty of tricks to help handle the bigger logs. If you go with the super 40, it will cost more but I just have to believe you won't regret it.  The Accuset is just too sweet, the pattern mode coupled with the auto up just saves time and lumber.  Good luck,  and yea we have to keep the ladies happy too!
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Bibbyman

Quote from: Dustin on August 20, 2012, 10:03:10 PM

Bibby how much of a learning curve is it stepping up to a lt40?

We learned how to break down a log into lumber on a manual mill and gained years of experience.

We installed the Super with a lot of features new to us. New also was how the operated - having stationary Command Control vs walk-along.  Also electric vs engine.  The head speed was maybe double that of the manual mill. 

We struggled the first time we tried to program and use the Accuset setworks.   It took a couple of days to "get it".

The learning curve was the steepest the first week.   I'd say it took us six months to get to where we were making full use of the Super's potential.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

WoodenHead

I think the biggest question is what are you going to use it for?

I bought an LT28 to start out with.  I wasn't sure whether I would like sawing and I didn't think I would be sawing much for others.  Now, almost 1 year later, I'm sawing to make wood products for others, production matters to me and I'm wishing I had bought at least the LT40 manual to start with.  But, the risk was minimal with the LT28 and it was the limit that my wife set  ;)

The LT28 is and has been a great mill for me.  It is very simple to work with, but I get my exercise.  For small diameter cedar, which I saw from time to time, hydraulics wouldn't buy me a whole lot.  For 16', 20" diameter white oak, I'm dreaming about hydraulics.

Speaking of hydraulics, Pineywoods has a great design for a hydraulic log turner that can be added to an LT40 manual or LT28 manual.  I'm in the process of putting that together for my own mill.  Perhaps that is something to consider as well.

hackberry jake

I am doing the pineywoods turner as well, you can turn a manual mill into hydraulic for around $1k. That's a lot less than the difference you are thinking about. How's the build coming newbee?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Bibbyman

As helpful as a hydraulic turner is, it still way short of making it an an LT28 equal an LT40 Standard HD mill and even further from being an LT40 Super HD.  These have power back supports, toe boards, loading arms, and log / cant clamp.

The Super sized version having two pumps making the HD twice as fast. Also the head drive motors are much larger and faster and strong enough to drag back lumber and even things as heavy a railroad ties.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

drobertson

Man, I have to say, this is not a nice post, but, if you want to po dunk around get the manual mill, if you want to saw, get the hydrualic one, just saying. you will not regret the hydraulic mill, unless you have no concern for  making boards,  This will get some goats, but I know that fighting logs is a pain and slow,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Bibbyman

Probably the best answer is not the used LT28 or the LT40 Super but the LT35 HD.  Lots of bang for the buck! Pretty much equal an LT40 Standard HD in about every way.   The only shortcoming is that a couple of high-end options are not available on the LT35.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

WoodenHead

Bibbyman is absolutely right.  An LT28 will never be an LT40.  By adding the Pineywoods turner and so on, I would look at it more like an LT32.5  :D  I'll be adding toe rollers, powered backstops, and eventually loading arms.  I'm using a 3HP AC electric motor and hydraulic pump to match to give me reasonable performance.  But there is no question about the heavier heads and drive motors in the larger mills.  For productivity gains I think drag-back capability is fantastic.

Yet, after a year and a growing client base, I still couldn't justify spending the money on an LT40SH (new or slightly used - I'm picky).  And I can't bring myself to sell a piece of equipment for several thousand less than what I paid for it a year ago.  Plus, adding hydraulics to a manual mill is a small investment (low risk) for gains in productivity.

If you are even considering milling for others Dustin, then I would suggest to save up for the LT40SH or better.  If you don't have loading equipment, then a mill with hydraulic loading would be the way to go, maybe the LT35.  If you are milling for yourself and you have the equipment to load, the LT28 is an excellent mill.  That's my 2 cents.

Hackberry Jake,
I have everything fabricated and welded for the turner and I'm doing a trial fit.  At first glance it looks like it is a little bit too tight.  I work at it when I can.  Too many other things on the go at the same time right now!

Joanie

My LT40hd is the first mill I have ever ran. I know I couldn't do sawing If I didn't have the hydros, to handle the logs. You can find a good used hydro mill for around the same price. What ever you chose have fun.
Yes this gal loves Grease and saw dust. Oh and my cat and my honey.
Lt40hd 24hp Onan, Husky 359 that runs when it wants to, Polan Wood Shark at the mill,starts every time, 1994 Jeep YJ.

Kansas

I think we bought a used LT40 HD mill for around 12,000, plus freight. Had like 2000 hours on it. That mill is way overpriced. At least in my opinion. We sold one for about the same with unknown hours, maybe 12,000 to 15000 hours for around that price. Work with the people at Woodmizer, and especially anyone of them in your area. They usually know who is wanting to sell their mill. It may not be on the Woodmizer site.

Brucer

I set out to do portable custom sawing 4 days a week in the spring and summer.

I had cut timbers (for myself) with an Alaskan chainsaw mill for 25 years, so I new for sure I wanted to keep on making lumber from logs. I ran someone else's LT40 hydraulic for a year so I knew how useful it was to have everything hydraulic. But I could not afford anything more than an LT40 manual (and that was pushing the budget) so that's what I bought.

I was 56 when I bought the mill and I didn't have any much trouble loading and turning logs. Well, OK, the 4000 lb, 33" diameter, 20'-6" Ponderosa Pine (that bent the bracket on the loading winch) was pushing it a little. The work was slow but the mill got the job done.

There wasn't nearly the demand I thought there would be, so I didn't see the kind of income I was expecting. At least I'd bought the mill from savings so I didn't have to worry about payments.

One year later I had acquired one large, regular customer who had a huge volume of work. I also had a track record, and some financial statements I could show the bank. So I was able to get a 5 year loan to upgrade to a hydraulic mill. I paid that loan off in 20 months. Yes, I "lost" some money when I sold the first mill. But if I'd borrowed the money to buy a hydraulic mill right from the start, I would have lost just as much money because the income wasn't there at first.

It would be really nice to have a Super hydraulic now instead of a regular hydraulic. But my production wouldn't be that much higher because the bottleneck for me is the material handling. Buy a higher capacity mill and there's more material to handle so sawing time actually goes down.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Migal

At your age I was more aggressive than I am now but I waited till now to buy a mill so I had to have hydraulics so to speak now I need a Terex or such LOL (believe that's a Bibby word for hydraulic board handler) but do get a mill and I'm sure you won't lose a dime and I'f wife like's the grain she'll let you upgrade with age ! 8)
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

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