1943 FORD 2N BULDING A POND

[Carlton]

I have been debating putting in a small pond around 1/2 to 1 acre in size on a section of land we have. I decided that instead of hiring a back hoe or dozer I would just use the old 43 ford and a breaking plow and 6 ft blade. I will try to get some pics up so everyone can see the old ford still pulling strong. Note to self though never ever do this again!!!

[LOGDOG]

Sounds like a bunch of work. I spent the entire afternoon grading and crowning the neighbors driveway for them and it wasn't that big of a stretch. How deep did you make your pond? We'll look forward to the pictures.

[fishpharmer]

Carlton,
Welcome to forestry forum!   I know of a nearby pond that was built with mule and a slip 75 plus years ago, still in good shape too.  That mule driver probably dreamed of having a ford tractor. 

Are you in the  drought stricken area I read about lately?   Droughts are good, if for nothing else, as a time to build or rebuild a pond.

fish

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Anxious to see the pics.
Building a pond with a 2N is doable, given enough time, patience, and all the joy of riding the tractor.

When I was a youngster, about 11/12, I drove our H JD pulling a slip to dig the neighbors basement. Guess I was the mule driver, so to speak. Endless hours if I recall correctly. But fun for an 11 yr old too.

[sandhills]

Welcome to the forum Carlton, I've never heard of a 2N, just 8s and 9s, I'd love to see a picture.  beenthere said it best, with time and patience, just enjoy what you're doing and it will get done  .

[Carlton]

Thanks for the welcome all!! As of right now our area of Northeastern Arkansas is around 15" of rainfall behind for the year. We have 5 rivers in our county and several lakes and streams and all are at historic low levels, which is amazing because just last spring we had historic flooding!! The pond I am building will be about 12ft deep at its deepest point and gradually slope toward the sides and uphill end. The 2N Ford is basically identical to the 9N the main differences being a couple of horsepower. The majority of the mills on the forum are running as much if not more hp than my 28hp ford!! Torque and low gearing is a great combination when yanking clay around. I will deffinately be getting pictures posted as soon as possible and they will give you a view of the pond area as well as an area where I will be setting up a new band mill in the near future. The land I have has alot of cedar, red oak, white oak, and wild cherry growing. My goal is to thin some of these out to encourage a healthier base population of trees and also open up some land for raising a few head of cattle and hogs. If anyone is ever in Northeastern Arkansas and feels like swinging by I am always up to company and a good cook out!!

[Woodchuck53]

I own a 100+ hp Case with a Reynolds 6 yd pan and I thought I was taking to long on my project. Whew that is something. Stay safe.

[Carlton]

I wouldnt know what to do with over 100hp or the 6yd pan!!! Im sure that Case has power steering which is more than I can say for the old wrist wrecking Ford!! But hey what can you expect from a 69 year old piece of equipment. One thing about operating an old ford is you can expect a sprained wrist or broken fingers from catching a rut, rock, stump or log wrong with the front tires if you actually wrap your fingers and thumb around the steering wheel :-[!! Note to all N model Ford owners there ;D

[Al_Smith]

Well just so you know a 1/2 acre surface water pond 12 feet deep is around 5000 yards of dirt .

I dug one myself using a 1943 Caterpiller D4 and it took me about a month evenings and week ends .I had to pump it out 4 times during that period before I was done .

Now I'm not saying you can't dig a pond with an old Ford but I am saying it will take you a long long time .It's probabley a better method though than a mule and a slip scoop .The old mule has to rest every so often ,the Ford doesn't .

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Yes....please send pics. I will need them to enter your endeavor into the World Book of Records. 

[Al_Smith]

You can buy a three point hitch cat.#1 slip scoop in two sizes ,8 or 10 cubic feet capacity which is lot more than you can drag with a rear blade .Now weather that old Ford could pick it up loaded or not remains the question .

If it would though provided you get far enough along to have to climb a pond bank with a load it might prove to be a challange keeping the front end on the ground .

A cubic foot of dry earth weighs aprox. 125 lbs .

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Carlton, and best wishes with your project.

I know of another 1943 model, 69 year old relic that has similar limitations.   :D

[Carlton]

I can tell you the old girl wont lift the 8 cubic foot full at around 650lbs load on the 3 point she gets real light on the front tires. The main saving grace is the angle of the slope I am putting on the levee and the way the pond will slope in from the uphill side to a ways past the middle so I wont have to move the full 5000 yards but still more than enough to qualify the ford for a rebuild when done. I figure I have time to work on it and I have a nice 6" irrigation pump and power unit that a friend of mine is going to let me use to keep the pond sucked out till I am ready for water. Right now water is kind of a mute point due to the severe drought conditions we are under. Btw thanks for the welcome Magicman.

[thecfarm]

Carlton,welcome to the forum. I grew up with a '54 NAA Ford. My father had the 8 or 9n first. Than he traded it for the NAA. Little bigger tractor,wider tires.better hyds. Good luck with your pond.

[LOGDOG]

Carlton,

If you can swing it, you may want to till some soil cement into your ponds base once you get it all dug out. I wish I would have done it on my pond to cap it extra good. Also helps with clarity too if that's important for you. Neighbor did it with his pond and his looks completely different than mine. And welcome to the Forum by the way.

[LeeB]

How far is Biggers from Harrison?

[pineywoods]

Been my experience them 3pt mounted blades are next to worthless. Look around for a small slip, your neck will thank you  ;D The ole ford should pull a small slip ok, but if the pump is worn, may not lift it..

[beenthere]

Carlton
How far along are you at this point?
Sounds like you plow with a moldboard on the 3pt, and then drag the plowed dirt away with the 3pt back blade. Switching off and on between the plow and blade.
I couldn't tell for sure if that is the plan, or if that is how the project is happening.

[Al_Smith]

I have no idea how that soil is but up here with blue clay often below 4 feet  depth you can't even get a plow in the ground .Believe it or not I couldn't even get an 8 foot blade of a dozer in the ground .

A set of 2-12 pull type JD plows set on full forward tilt behind a Oliver model HG crawler couldn't get it done .What did was a subsoiler behind a Ferguesen TO-20 .Just a tad heavier and a few more ponys than that 2n Ford .Something to think about .

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I know of another 1943 model, 69 year old relic that has similar limitations.   :D

Your old relic has a long way to go yet, Magic. Keep the oil changed, your battery charged and the rpm's within it's normal limitations.....and your '43 model will still be sawing at 96! 

[Carlton]

LeeB, Harrison is around 2.5-3 hours from Maynard. LogDog I have actually been considering adding the soil additive when I am closer to finished with the pond, but I dont think it will be needed as the soil I am working in is thick red clay that hols water like a plastic bowl.Beenthere you are correct on the method of my madness, I do go through and use a single row breaking plow to break the soil about 6-10" deep and then use the blade to move the loosend material. Al_Smith I also have a sub soiler but I dont think I will need it till I get around 4 ft down so far the lil ford is able to pull the breaking plow through the clay pretty good. Pineywoods I am in the process of trying to find a small slip to purchase. Cfarm the NAAs are dang good ole tractors whish I had one I passed up the opurtuniyu to purchase one several months back and have kicked myself ever since.

[petefrom bearswamp]

OK I am ignorant.
What is a slip?
My friend and I had a two handled apparatus that we pulled behind   a 32 Chevy doodlebug to try to dig a pond with and it hoisted us into the air more than once.
We gave our pond building project up.
As an aside i weighed 137 pounds in those days, and am MUCH heavier now.
Pete

[Don_Papenburg]

I have dug ditches and waterways with a plow and backblade.  We would start plowing  and then go back to the start and replow what we had just plowed moving it over and digging a little more . just keep doing that and you will move a lot of dirt then you can use the blade to get the larger piles moved to where you need them . go back to plowing again .  You will be surprised how much earth can be moved with a plow.

[Woodchuck53]

The sub-soiler idea is what I was thinking also. When I originally dug out the waste area for a pond a JD 450 would throw sparks against the red clay. That was about 4 feet down into it. Tried using a 6' tandem disc and then an 8' off set. No luck. Ended up using a 2 shank subsoiler going about 12" at a time. That worked but couldn't keep an extra operator on board and did most by myself. I have access to larger equipment now and hope the re dig will go smoother. If you can find a sub soiler head on down here and I will give you a single shank I rigged up for 3 pt. hitch. It's crude but free.

I to remember the 8N and 9N's. I learned to (steer) on one when I was 5 helping dad drop fence post in a line. I was a big boy then. Stay safe and let us see some photo's

[Carlton]

You deffinately can move alot of dirt plowing and back bladeing. I am going to purchase a good dirt scoop/slip for the tractor though, I have found a 30" King Kutter scoop at our local orscheln farm store for a little under $400 and I can always use it for ditching and cleaning manure from chicken roosts etc. I figure with the plow the scoop and the blade I can make pretty good progress on this project. Who is gonna buy the beer when I get done though ;D. Woodchuck I have access to sub soiler heads and I think the sub soiler would be a good idea because it can rip deeper and requires a little less horsepower from the old Ford to pull when compared to the breaking plow I am currently using. I will have some photos up by Saturday afternoon.

[beenthere]

OK I am ignorant.
What is a slip?
My friend and I had a two handled apparatus that we pulled behind   a 32 Chevy doodlebug to try to dig a pond with and it hoisted us into the air more than once.We gave our pond building project up.
As an aside i weighed 137 pounds in those days, and am MUCH heavier now.
Pete

That's a slip 

http://seldomseensheep.tripod.com/morganfamilypioneerheritage/id55.html

[Woodchuck53]

Thank youbeen there that was informative. I'll stick to my 1962 case just the same.
I never did like being down wind of an oat fed horse.

[Al_Smith]

I single point subsoiler behind that little Ford would be real lucky to get more than 6 inchs deep .Much more the old gal couldn't pull it .

For plowing in cable I used to make three passes through the same slot  and lay the cable on the last pass down maybe 16" .

[Al_Smith]

Let me add something here on this subsoiler business .Those old single point Dearborn or Harry A Fuergeson models were made to go on a catigory 1 tractor .Resist the temptation of using one behind a 100 HP tractor or you'll break it right into .Trust me I've welded several back together .

[Carlton]

Al with the breaking plow I have been using the old girl is cutting between 8 and 9 inches in 1 pass. Puts the strain to her a little but she has been holding in there good.I dont think I will break a subsoiler because Im about 70hp short of 100 with the old 2n. She is making a few more ponies than stock because I am running a high compression head and electronic ignition kit and my mad tractor scientist neighbor has gone through the trouble of tuning her to his high standards.This man is a genius when it comes to gas or diesel farm equipment or just about anything else with an internal combustion motor of any size ;D. A quick update on the project for everyone while I am at it. Took the afternoon and serviced the Ford changed oil and filter and changed the hydraulic fluid out to get her ready for a hard weekend of use. Charged the batteries for the camera so I can get some good pictures of the early portions of this project put up this weekend also. Decided that once the pond is finished I need to build a nice barn near it and I think Im going to use timber from the land to build the barn  8), so looks like I need to purchase a bandsaw mill. Anyone ever heard of Mister Sawmill from Flippin Arkansas?

[ScottAR]

Howdy neighbor and welcome to the forum.

[thurlow]

Instead of a barn nearby, you might consider an in-pond pavilion.  Everything 'underneath' is used utility poles......either whole or sawed for joists/beams.



 

[beenthere]

thurlow
The tide must be out in that pic. 

Nice place to relax away from the bugs. ;)

[Al_Smith]

Well yeah in good topsoil under the right conditions you could turn 9 inchs but that's pretty deep for a 12" plow .

I couldn't find the Nebraska test for the 2N Ford but the original test for the 8N is test number 393 .It lists the stock drawbar HP at 17.43 with around 25 on the belt .

Now I suppose just  like the Fergesons you crank out 4 or 5 more with overbore and high comp . pistons .Been there and done that but one draw back is if you push them hard you can over heat them .

[Carlton]

Thurlow, Hi to you, you are in my neck of the woods glad to hear from you!! That in pond pavilion is very nice. Im going with the barn due to live stock and equipment storage needs. Al im running overbore, higher compression pistons,electronic ignition conversion and a low range add on to the drive line. The low range add on is what helps me the most gives me a low range version of all 3 of my forward gears. I cant remember what the exact reduction it is but it makes the old girl crawl in first.

[thecfarm]

Sherman shift. I don't know why they made those older ones so high gear. Not like you want to go 10 miles an hour plowing or in the woods.My NAA will crawl in first too.

[Carlton]

thecfarm you are correct on the sherman shift and also correct on too high of geared on the older ones!! Gets kind of fun running down the highway when your steering arm tie rod ends are a little worn. ;D

[beenthere]

Put a foot on each arm and they can be held pretty steady while going down the road. ;)

[Carlton]

Not only can you hold them steadier but if your bushhogging or disking up a field you can actually steer the around pretty decently.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Thanks Beenthere, that is essentially the apparatus my pal and I used but ours was all steel.
My former FIL called it a scoop.

[gspren]

Been my experience them 3pt mounted blades are next to worthless. Look around for a small slip, your neck will thank you  ;D The ole ford should pull a small slip ok, but if the pump is worn, may not lift it..

I used to maintain our driveway with a back blade until I found a deal on a scraper box, the sides on the box keep from spilling everything and works much better. I use a 7ft box on my JD 2355 4X4 but you wouldn't want much more than 5ft with the Ford.

[thurlow]

In 1950 or '51, I watched my dad (when I wan't in school) build a pond with a team of mules and a 'slip' scoop.  In the late '50s/early '60s, I spent a lot of hours on a 30 Ferguson and 35 MF with a 3-point hitch pond scoop.  They're only a little larger than your 2N.  Personally, if I were using a 2N, I'd rather have the pond scoop, but...........anything's possible.  When I look at some of the cuts/levees around 'here' that were done with human/animal power, it blows my mind.

[Carlton]

If you ever come down highway 67 between Biggers and Pocahontas Arkansas you will drive over a long section of road bed that rises about 15ft or more above the bottmlands of Current and Black river. This is the original road bed that was built using teams of mules , wagons and dirt slips.

[Carlton]

 

 

[Carlton]

Ok , I managed to get 1 pic up and dont know what the heck I did 

[beenthere]

Good on the pics. What is the question/frustration? You must have followed the directions. 
I see three pics in your gallery, but one doesn't come up with expanded image.

[Carlton]

 

      Pic of the old flathead 4 and the shifter for the low range transmission add on.

[ScottAR]

Looks like ya'll got a little more rain than we did here... It's powder dry.
I see progress there.

[Carlton]

Yeah we finally got a good rain at the place in Maynard. But if you traveled to where my house is in Biggers we got a 3ft rain. 3ft rain meaning the few rain drops we got hit 3ft apart at the closest!!

[sandhills]

It's nice to see a picture with a little muck in it, your 3 ft rain sounds all to familiar.  Nice little tractor by the way, someday I WILL have a little Ford!

[Carlton]

Several really nice lil Fords around here for sale right now, price ranges from around $1800-$3000. The muck was actually kind of nice and me and the Ford got a rest break out of the deal. About 3 hours after the sun came out the muck was gone and it was back to work :(

[ScottAR]

Sounds like the same kinda rain we've gotten.    Great pics!

[Carlton]

This weekend I will have some pics up of the progress made this week and also of the Ford toten a new dirt scoop!! 8)

[WmFritz]

 

[isawlogs]

You're going to need another hole in the belt if you keep eating popcorn like that ...

[pineywoods]

If you ever come down highway 67 between Biggers and Pocahontas Arkansas you will drive over a long section of road bed that rises about 15ft or more above the bottmlands of Current and Black river. This is the original road bed that was built using teams of mules , wagons and dirt slips.

That explains why it's so narrow and NO shoulders.  :P I came that way a couple of weeks ago driving a big motor home..

[Carlton]

Hi Piney, when you came that way you passed within 1/2 mile of my house. Yeah the stretch that is built up is narrow and has limited shoulder space. Guess they did not want to overwork the mules.

[tractormanNwv]

Welcome to the Forum Carlton, with the underdrive Sherman trans you should definately have all the power you need for pulling, unless you have fluid in the tires your weight or "lack of" will be your problem, a little weight means a lot. The tractor in my avatar is a 1949 J.I. Case DC-4 33hp, I have a 1969 Massey Ferguson 150 38hp-40hp that can by no means pull what the case can, but it does'nt weigh as much neither. I wish you luck on the pond, seems to be a dream for a lot of us, and keep us up to date on your progress.

Jim

[Carlton]

Jim thanks for the welcome, I do have fluid in the rear tires with a tractor as light as the lil Ford it had to be done to get any work done in the hard soil it gets to play in. That Case is a good looking tractor wish the Ford was in as good of shape. You never know maybe after the pond I will treat it to an overhaul, replace some damaged sheet metal, and give her a nice coat of Ford grey!!

[Fla._Deadheader]

When I lived in Arkansas, had 2 neighbors killed when them Fords reared up and turned over on them. Just sayin.

[ScottAR]

One here a few weeks ago...  Was trying to put a log without anything on the 3pt.   Always keep something on the back for a "wheelie bar" when using a chain or cable on the drawbar.

[Carlton]

Yeah you always want something on the back, I generaly leave my blade on and attach to it when I am pulling brush or logs.

[tractormanNwv]

Thanks Carlton, it sure did'nt look like that when I drug it in....the DC is a oddball, all the shafts in the transmission run paralell with the rear axle, not the crankshaft, and therefore they have internal chains...not gears that turn the rear axles. My wife and I are the Founders / President of "Vintage Pride" Antique tractor and Engine show, so I have a weak spot for any/all tractors, I just grew up around Case. When ya get the pond done go ahead and doll'er up a little and ya never know....? maybe your wife will mow with it"around the pond" while you fish ..... :D

Jim

[ScottAR]

Park it on the high ground.  Rain's a coming.

[Carlton]

Scott, I got her parked on the top of the hill and under a heavy duty tarp to ride this one out!! Wish I already had the pond dug because with whats coming it would probably fill it right up. I did manage to pick up a King Kutter dirt scoop for the Ford over the weekend and was amazed at the amount of dirt I was able to move in the 2 hours before it rained me out. I forgot my camera at the house so I will get some pics and maybe a movie of the old girl working after Isaac gets out of the way.

[Carlton]

Isaac was not too bad on the project because the point I was at still allowed most of the water to drain out of the ponds beginning. The thunder storm and 2.5 inches of rain last night were another story. I had the bowl of the pond dug out about 4ft deep and around 30x20 and it filled to the brim. Spent the day pumping water out with a small water garden pump because the large pump I have refused to start :-\.

[ScottAR]

At least you know it'll hold water.   : ;D

[Carlton]

Scott you have a point there. ;D

[Carlton]

Well $240 for a radiator $75 for a new grill and about $15 for a radiator pad and new bolts andhopefully if the rain stays away the ole girl will be back to working on the pond later this weekend  8)

[Carlton]

Hey all I am back. Still havent gotten the pond completed too much has been going on to allow me to work on it due to a promotion at work. But on the bright side I did manage to purchase a new bandsaw mill today and it should be delivered mid next week. I purchased the Woodland Mills HM126 with a track extension and 10 blades to kill with my beginners luck.  ;D

[Magicman]

Yup, sometimes life hands us detours.  All that matters is how we handle them.   

[ScottAR]

Welcome back.  A promotion sounds like a good problem to have.

[Carlton]

It deffinately has been a good problem to have. On the other hand I went to start the old ford today and do a little more work on the pond and mill site and it would turn opver but no go on the start. Started checking and discovered a squirrel liked the wires on the old girl. Time for fried squirrel, biscuits and gravy.

[thecfarm]

Congrats on the mill! What's all the lumber going to be used for?

[ozarkgem]

I would like to see some pics of the building project. Personally I would hire a D9 to get it done. .

[Carlton]

Lumber is claimed already for a tractor shed, small pole barn, and raised beds for the bosses garden. Wheres the fun in the D9 lol that would be entirely too easy. Ohh and also the boss has suddenly decided a small cabin will have to be built by the pond when it is finished. She trust me to be able to make useable lumber wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much.

[Al_Smith]

Ha the problem with a big D9 Cat is it would cost more in road permits to get it there and back as it would cost to shove out a pond .That thing is a big old chunk of cast iron .

[ozarkgem]

Ha the problem with a big D9 Cat is it would cost more in road permits to get it there and back as it would cost to shove out a pond .That thing is a big old chunk of cast iron .

I know, big and bad ;D

[ScottAR]

They sound good though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze8mPB7A8uU&list=UUVr-uUnTEFPhMMxmknr5LMw

Not my machine but she's a beaut.

[Carlton]

Big Bad and what a turbo whine, gotta love the fact that it moves more dirt in 1 pass then I can in 1 day lol. Oh well I can watch and I can dream or I can take what I have and run with it. But I do admit nice dozer!!

[Al_Smith]

In a former life with a former wife I dug out 5500 yards of dirt with a 1943 D4 Cat series 2T for a pond .1981
I cut a slot something like that for a test hole and stalled the ole gal right in the bottom of the hole .Unknown to me the fuel transfer pump was not working .Then of course it rained and rained .I finally got it out by using the pony motor .

[Carlton]

Its been awhile since I have seen one of the old pony motor cats. I missed a deal on a very nice older model d6 last year. Farmer near me had it and my next door nieghbor who is his farm mechanic had gone through it and replaced worn drive parts and freshened it up. I went on vacation and while I was away for the week the farmer sold the old girl for 5,000 cash because he bought a newer one and didnt need 2.

[mesquite buckeye]

Just a little encouragement from the peanut gallery. My uncle built a half acre pond in the late 60's with his little Ferguson and a 3 pt scoop in some of the stickiest clay you will ever see. Mighty nice pond now enjoyed by the great grandkids. ;D

That old tractor still runs and my uncle, near 90 now still uses it. My dad had one which was the tractor I learned to drive with. ;D

I loved that old tractor, sad when he traded it in on a new, more powerful, but similar looking international. Don't remember the model.