iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

How many hours make an LT40HD "Old"

Started by Delawhere Jack, August 02, 2012, 01:40:11 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Delawhere Jack

I'm going to have to take the plunge and go hydraulic. I'm seeing some reasonably priced used LT40HD, many with under 1k hours. I'm also seeing some with high hours, 4k-12k hours plus, that are several thousand cheaper.

I'm thinking that rust and/or abuse would be more damaging than total hours.

Any thoughts on this?

More precisely, what sort of wear/damage should I look out for that would render a high hour mill not useful at any price..?

levans

I have a 2000 lt40hd when I bought it it had about 600 hours it now has 1600 and to me is the same as when I bough it. I think your right about abuse being a bigger issue than normal use and wear and tear, if the mill its self is in good shape the most you should be looking at is an engine rebuild or replacement . If you see parts on the mill that are going to have to be replaced then you have to take into account what that will cost. Are those parts going to cost you more than you saved buying that mill instead of one with less hours?

Levans

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Kansas

Arky and I were talking about this subject a bit. We both figured we had somewhere between 12,000 and 15000 hours each on the mills. I think he knew his exact figure; we did not ours, after the hour meter quit. I wind up selling ours, after we got it all going after  retiring it, so we could get it ready to sell. I then discover we need to replace it as a 3rd mill after it was gone. So I found a newer one with about 2000 hours. We have just about the same upkeep as the old one. I guess engines might be an issue. But if its never been wrecked, its just going to be basic upkeep. There isn't that much to it. About everything can be replaced. And everything will be replaced, eventually. Your cam rollers, hydraulic lines and motors which can be rebuilt, its all relative. The main thing once again, is if its ever been in a wreck. If it hasn't, I would pick the one that suits you best. The one thing that you might look at is what it has for setworks. Our old one had the original setworks that quit long ago, and no parts were available for. The newer one we bought has Accuset 2. It works well. That would be the only other thing I would look at. The rest is what options are on the machine. Not all Woodmizers are created equal. Figure out what your cutting needs are, and and what options you really want. If you are cutting outside, for example, the laser is close to worthless. The debarker is never worthless. Things like a seat, or a standing station, that is personal preference.

AdamT

I have to agree with Peter. I bought mine new. For what I would have saved on a slightly used mill wasn't worth it to me. These mills dont lose value easily.

Plus you get to put all the scratches in it!   Buy new, you won't regret it!
2017 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD35-RA
2011 Wood-Mizer LT40 HD

It's better to have it and not need it then it is to need it and not have it

Chuck White

I saved almost half when I bought my mill.

It had 487.6 hours on it then and it now has 1,784.0 and I've not had to do any costly repairs on the mill.

Just do the preventive maintenance and routine upkeep and the mill will last you years.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

T Welsh

I bought my mill with the hour meter busted and its a 1992 or 94 LT-40HD. The previous owner told me he thought it had about 4 or 5 thousand hours on it. I asked to see it operate before purchase and it sawed straight and true,it held its tolerance to a 1/16 of an inch on a 10' log. I have put about 3 thousand hours on it afterwards and it still holds the same tolerance. 8) It,s all in the up keep of the machine. Woodmizer builds a great machine, But lack of maintenance even on the best machine will draw it down to a pile of nuts and bolts really fast. Depending on what you want to do with it and how good you are at fixing your own equipment, would dictate weather I would go new,or used. Good luck in your hunt! Tim

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Chuck White on August 02, 2012, 03:53:32 PM
I saved almost half when I bought my mill.

It had 487.6 hours on it then and it now has 1,784.0 and I've not had to do any costly repairs on the mill.

Just do the preventive maintenance and routine upkeep and the mill will last you years.
you did good with a low hr WM, and you save some $ too. thats what to look for. and its just the up keep after that.. For me I just don;t buy hi mile trucks or hi hr machines. :D :D ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

customsawyer

Hours is not a problem. Abuse is something to take into consideration.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

rmack

Availability is also a factor. used market practically non-existant in my area.

You are much better geographically positioned to be able to find a used machine.
the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

pineywoods

Hours don't necessarily make a mill old. Neglect will..If it ain't bent or rusted out, it's repairable, parts and support are readily available.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Magicman

Hours and birthdays may make a sawmill old but never too old.  A well maintained sawmill will just keep on sawing as it was intended to do.   
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

sdunston

Even if I had purchased the first LT40 that rolled off the line it would still be the newest thing I own 8).................Equipment gets better with age,just like wine 8) 8)

Sam
WM LT28, American fordge 18x8 planer,Orange and white chainsaws, NH TC33, IHT6 dozer, IH-H tractor and alot of other stuff that keeps me agravated trying to keep running

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: sdunston on August 05, 2012, 09:24:33 AM
Equipment gets better with age,just like wine 8) 8)

Sam

Unless you back over it with your truck!  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

Not sure about the 40 HD machines, but quite sure they will get the job done. As far as hydraulics go, I just like the way they work. so much quicker getting the blade back in the cut. Used ones can be found worth the money. Sawmill exchange is a good place to start for some price comparisons. Allot of folks like the idea of sawing then find out it is a bit more than they bargained for.  These are the ones to look for, in my opinion. Not enough time to have been messed up. Plus often times they get the package deal with extras' they just want out. Good luck and hard work.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Brucer

Mine has 2000 + hours on it and is just as good as when it was new -- except that it is slowly turning pink ;).

My friend, Louis, had to replace the Onan engine on his 1996 LT40HD in 2006, at about 5500 hours. I ran it for him in 2004 when it was just over 5000 hours. The only problems were due to lack of maintenance (specifically lubrication).

The pole mill down the road ran a Wood-Mizer to recover small cedar lumber from the over-sized butts and skinny tops of their poles. They put 6000 hours on the gas-power LT40 manual before they upgraded to an electric SuperHD. That one has 8000 hours on it and works fine, although they've shut it down now due to a slow market for the product.

When I was shopping for my first mill (manual LT40) I found a couple of used ones that looked good. Both were 7 years old. One had 300 hours on it, and the other had 170 hours. In both cases the owners wanted way too much for them. People often don't grasp how much age will depreciate a product -- for example, the introduction of a new model or a significant upgrade may make an older machine far less valuable.

If you find one of these older, low hour machines, find out from WM what it might be worth before negotiating with the customer.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

woodmills1

as the owner of two previous owner woodmizers I say



buy them


you do have to deal with the lack of knowledge of the previous owners

as in all out of adjustment,  but wow they cut just straight when you tune them up

and did I mention  Woodmizer treats you just fine as an owner of used
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Leigh Family Farm

After reading this thread, it seems hours aren't a big factor and maintenance/upkeep is the key. Any idea on a price for a well maintained LT15 or TK1220 thats 3, 5, or 10 years old? I know options will play a big part so lets say it has one or two upgrades but not all the bells n whistles. I don't have specific ones in mind that I can show everyone. I'm trying to decide if going new is worth the cost. Thanks for the help and all the great info!

Background info: I plan on starting as a "weekend warrior" sawyer cutting for my home renovations and maybe a few friends. Eventually, in a few years, I would like to upgrade the mill and start part-time business that will provide enough income to operate the mill and add a couple hundred dollars to my slush fund each month.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

drobertson

If you are convinced to go used, it might be a good idea to find the models you are looking for, then find the high wear parts, and most common replacement items on these mills for replacement availability. ON mine they no longer carry the motor brushes for the hydraulic system. Not a bad fix, just surprised they quit carrying them. this might be an isolated case, but going used something worth looking into. Money saving on used anything almost always beats new, if a total rebuild is not needed. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Brucer

I was once told by a WM rep that for each year of age, deduct 10% of the previous year's value. Then on top of that, deduct $1.25 for each hour on the meter. That was in Canadian $ when the exchange rate was around 1.25 to 1, so it would probably work out to $1.00 per hour today.

One year old -- age value = 90% of new.
Two years old -- age value = 81% of new.
Three years old -- age value = 73% of new.
Etc.

One little point -- for the "new" value you should be using today's price for the mill you're looking at, not what the owner paid for it several years earlier.

For my 6-year old mill, age value is about 55% of new, and then deduct $2100 for the hours showing on the meter :(.

Those are ball park numbers. My mill is super-well maintained so of course it is worth closer to 95% of the new value :D :D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Leigh Family Farm

Thanks Brucer! That simple calculation is a great place to start when pricing used mills.
There are no problems; only solutions we haven't found yet.

barbender

I bought my mill with 1000 hours on it, I don't believe the previous owner could even pronounce the word maintainence ::) The only reason I bought it was the low hours limited the abuse he could give it.  I wouldn't be afraid of a mill with higher hours if the price was right and the owner mainained it well. On the other hand, I don't think my mill would have made 2000 hours with the previous owner.
Too many irons in the fire

Ohio_Bill

Wow according to the 90% of previous year calculation and 1.00 per hr . My mill is worth  $10170.00       I don't want to sell it for that . :D

Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

drobertson

No bout adout that! I clearly would not sell mine for 10k. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

MartyParsons

Hello,
I work on Wood Mizer mills.  I have seen high hour mills with little need for anything but a few adjustments and some wear parts.  I have seen low hour WM mills that need repair due to neglect.
I just worked on a 1988 LT30 with 250 hours.  The saw head was rusted to the mast.
It is repaired and out sawing lumber.
I have thought about doing a step by step picture story of a service and post it on the F F but never seem to make it happen. 

The hydraulic motor are from the company Monarch. They supply Wood Mizer with parts to service their motors.  Monarch does not have the brushes to repair the motors on the early pump motors.  Thus Wood Mizer can not offer the brushes.  Most customers can remove the motors and take them to an alternator repair shop and have them rebuild the motors.  Monarch does have motors as replacement and Wood Mizer does have brushes and motors to replace these if needed.
The brush on the motors last about 950 hours and should be checked at this hour mark.

Hope this helps!
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Thank You Sponsors!