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Research for novel

Started by Wookiee, August 02, 2012, 10:10:44 AM

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Wookiee

Hi All,
An introduction so you know I am not some troll - my name is Denis and I am writing a book as part of a national writing competition. It is an SF novel and part of it is supposed to be taking place in a logging camp in the BC interior (in the Vernon B.C. area). Of course this was all an idea until the competition started. We have 30 days to write a 50K word novel but I refuse to just gloss over the logging part because bad details make for bad fiction in my opinion so if I may ask a few questions along with follow up questions it would be appreciated.

The premise of the novel is this: Sasquatch does exist but has been hiding in plain sight for centuries. Now they are considering whether or not to reveal themselves to human kind because their fate is inextricably linked to the forest and the forest is in jeopardy caused by invasive species, environmentalists and logging (specifically reforestation).

Okay so it probably all sounds a little far fetched but it is an SF novel after all.

My first questions if anyone is willing to respond are these:

1 - Do they harvest trees as deep in the interior as Vernon?

2 - Do loggers still use chainsaws to take down big trees?

3 - Are loggers allowed to take big trees in the interior?

4 - How do you cut down a really big tree?

The questions are probably really naive but I live in Montreal where the biggest tree near me is the ornamental crab apple tree at the end of my driveway. Any answers are appreciated.

Jeff

Wookiee, I've sent a message to Paul_H pointing this topic out to him. Paul is a third generation B.C. Logger and active up until just a couple years ago. He should be able to help with this topic. There are other members that can as well.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Paul_H

Hi Wookie,

I'm at work so have to be brief for now but the answers to your first three questions are yes although processers are getting far more common in the interior.One of our customers is a highlead logger in the Vernon area and he still employs hand fallers.

The answer to the fourth is..very carefully.

Welcome to the forum. :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

beenthere

Wookiee
Welcome to the Forum.

Great that you ask, and will look forward to your answers and eventually your book.

One thing to help with question #4 is to calculate the weight of a big standing tree. Then realize that those tons of wood are going to come down somewhere nearby whoever is releasing the holding wood. Once they start moving, they are not going to be held up by anyone or anything.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Buck

Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Wookiee

Quote from: Jeff on August 02, 2012, 10:37:05 AM
Wookiee, I've sent a message to Paul_H pointing this topic out to him. Paul is a third generation B.C. Logger and active up until just a couple years ago. He should be able to help with this topic. There are other members that can as well.

Thank you Buck that is greatly appreciated even with the answers so far I already have follow up questions like: What is a highlead logger? The immediate response and supportive answers from everyone were wonderful to see.

Wookiee

Quote from: Paul_H on August 02, 2012, 11:19:43 AM

The answer to the fourth is..very carefully.


:D - thank you for your answers. Glad to hear that at least the logging operation doesn't have to be moved.

Wookiee

Quote from: beenthere on August 02, 2012, 11:31:29 AM
Wookiee
Welcome to the Forum.

Great that you ask, and will look forward to your answers and eventually your book.

One thing to help with question #4 is to calculate the weight of a big standing tree. Then realize that those tons of wood are going to come down somewhere nearby whoever is releasing the holding wood. Once they start moving, they are not going to be held up by anyone or anything.

This answer implies some serious math skills. How do you calculate the tonnage of a tree?

Weekend_Sawyer


Welcome Wookiee!
You are in the right place!
Take a look to the left and follow it down to the red toolbox.
In there you will find a calculator.

There is so much information here your head may explode!
... mabe you could put that in the book  :D

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Weekend_Sawyer


Also,

Look left again, go up to "Home" then over to "search"
type in tree felling. Loads of good stuff there, check out cedar tree felling from the tree's perspective. Wow, that's cool!

be careful, next thing you know you will be building your own band-mill, or collecting chainsaws or showing up at the pig roast this Saturday. ;)

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Wookiee

Thank you Weekend_Sawyer (an aside here - the foreman if that is the correct term - at the logging site is named Bob Sawyer).

Another question: Is there a specific type/brand of skidder you are more likely to see in a logging operation where big trees are being taken or are all types used and it just depends on the lumber being taken out of the site? The more I read the more questions I have.

Weekend_Sawyer


I am an avid reader and would love to read this novel. Let us know when and where we can read it.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Jeff

There are also some Forestry Forum reference materials we've created for terms you may need to use in your writiings.

www.woodopedia.com
www.lumberjacklingo.com
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Weekend_Sawyer


Jeff, you needed to type that real fast like the do at the end of commercials.  ;D
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Mark Wentzell

There's some videos on youtube showing tree falling in British Columbia.

Since the book is fiction you could base the logging off of what's on Ax-Men, not very  realistic but more dramatic. 

Wookiee

Quote from: Mark Wentzell on August 02, 2012, 07:51:29 PM
There's some videos on youtube showing tree falling in British Columbia.

Since the book is fiction you could base the logging off of what's on Ax-Men, not very  realistic but more dramatic.

Hahaha, I was hoping to avoid that kind of drama.

I want the logging in the book to be as realistic as the computer stuff in the book which is why I cam to a forum where there are people who know what they are talking about.  I need to know a few things about the process like how big trees are felled, how they are moved, what the chain of command is on a logging site and how exactly tree planting is done (nothing is ever as obvious as it sounds). Over the years meeting all kinds of people in all kinds of professions it becomes clear that every job, no matter how it seems from the outside, has a group of specific tools and skillsets which are rarely immediately observable. I was surprised in this forum today to learn that there was a method to calculate the tonnage of a tree: who knew that anyone would even want to do that? If nothing else it would be a success if someone familiar with logging read the few dozen pages that will take place in the logging operation and at least concede that most of it sounded right - right terms, right equipment etc. the drama I will leave to the sasquatches.

beenthere

Wookiee
One of several reasons to want to compute tonnage is when bucking trees for removal by helicopter. They want to be close to capacity of the heli but for sure not be over.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jeff

Quote from: Mark Wentzell on August 02, 2012, 07:51:29 PM

Since the book is fiction you could base the logging off of what's on Ax-Men, not very  realistic but more dramatic.

One way to make sure anyone in the know would never bother reading it, would be to do that.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

Wookiee,welcome to the forum. Too bad you couldn't spend a day with a logger. That would answer most questions firsthand.There's ALOT to it. Even more trying to write about it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Gary_C

I notice that you seem to be focusing only on big trees. I hope you realize that a commercial logging operation is focused on the total volume of wood to be harvested. They are not specifically looking for the very big trees. And in fact the largest trees have lower or little value because there are few sawmills left that have the ability to saw those large trees. And as beenthere pointed out, those big trees are so big and heavy, that it takes some very large equipment to move them. So the big trees can be more of a pain to a logger than something to seek out.

I am sure Paul can tell you the max diameter limits for most commercial mills.

I point out this in hope that your story line is not about some loggers roaming the deep woods in search of the big ones. If any logger did something like that, he would have a terrible time getting that big tree out of the woods, loaded onto a truck, and delivered to someplace that could saw big trees.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Wookiee

Quote from: Gary_C on August 02, 2012, 10:23:35 PM
I notice that you seem to be focusing only on big trees. I hope you realize that a commercial logging operation is focused on the total volume of wood to be harvested. They are not specifically looking for the very big trees. And in fact the largest trees have lower or little value because there are few sawmills left that have the ability to saw those large trees. And as beenthere pointed out, those big trees are so big and heavy, that it takes some very large equipment to move them. So the big trees can be more of a pain to a logger than something to seek out.

I am sure Paul can tell you the max diameter limits for most commercial mills.

I point out this in hope that your story line is not about some loggers roaming the deep woods in search of the big ones. If any logger did something like that, he would have a terrible time getting that big tree out of the woods, loaded onto a truck, and delivered to someplace that could saw big trees.

Hi Gary,
Thank you for your response. No the story is not about loggers roaming the deep woods in search of big trees. I need a lot info about different things but how a big tree is chosen and cut will play a role for a particular character. This is a work in progress and because of the nature of the competition something which I think will work today may get thrown out tomorrow as unworkable. To allay one concern the role of loggers in this story is actually small but a positive one - loggers are good guys. I don't want to get too much into it because it is a work of fiction in progress and anything I say today can change tomorrow but the benefits of logging are very important to the story and unlikely to change.

This morning I would like to know if tree harvesting is a year round occupation? Are trees harvested in the B.C. interior during the summer or fall months? This is very important to the story because it is supposed to take place before the onset of winter. If tree harvesting doesn't take place at that time of year then I have to rework three of the current eight chapters. Also if there is a pine beetle infestation in an area

Since any impression i have of logging has been garnered from popular media I would also like to know if loggers are ever actually out of earshot of one another on a logging site? Do loggers work in camps or do they go home at the end of the day? Will cellphone work onsite? Is an individual logger normally skilled in all aspect of logging or do people specialize? It may be surprising but all this info can boil down to as little as a paragraph in a chapter but if it isn't true to the reality then I have failed in my job to tell a good story. At the moment I have a character operating a clam bunk skidder and he is alone when he sees a Sasquatch. Is it even possible that he would be alone? How big or small would an operation have to be for that to happen?

These questions are probably all naive to those of you in this forum and I appreciate anyone who has the patience to respond as much as any concerns they may have as to how their profession is being portrayed. BTW - the name of the book in progress is called The Tree Dwellers (on the off chance someone actually buys it and it makes it onto a bookshelf somewhere).

BaldBob

Depending on the snow depths that may be encountered at a particular location, logging often is a year round operation - though most areas in the northern part of the N American continent shut down logging during a brief (sometimes not so brief) period in the spring, called spring break-up (mud season).
The beetle infestation that is impacting BC is the Mountain Pine Beetle, which primarily attacks Lodgepole pine (though it can also be a problem in young overly dense Ponderosa Pine stands). Lodgepole pine is a relatively short-lived (120 yrs old would be an extremely old Lodgepole), relatively small species ( in over 50 years working in the woods, the largest sawtimber quality one I have seen was 21" diameter, and I can count on one hand the number that were over 18' diameter) that tends to grow in even aged stands over extensive areas, with all the trees in a very narrow diameter range (usually 10-14"dia. in mature stands). In bad beetle outbreaks the beetle will kill most of the Lpp in a mature stand.
I am not intimately familiar with the Vernon area, but it is in the Okanogan Valley, which is in an area primarily known as a Ponderosa Pine growing area rather than Lodgepole. In that area, the Bark beetles of major concern (other than for over crowded young stands of Ponderosa) will be the Western Pine beetle which attacks and kills large scattered Old Growth Ponderosa Pine that are weakened by age and other factors, and the Douglas-fir bark Beetle, which I have not heard of as a significant problem at the present time in interior BC.
Yes, loggers are often out of earshot of one another. especially if they are wearing hearing protection, which I think is required for many types of operators in BC.
Although there are still some operations (mainly in the far North) that use logging camps (though I doubt there are any in the Vernon area), most loggers return home each night.
Lodgepole pine stands rarely need replanting, as burning the logging slash opens the serotinous cones of these species and prepares the seed bed, with the result that far more seedlings per acre regenerate than are desirable. The Ponderosa Pine stands of the Okanogan are often managed on an un-even aged basis, usually with little need for replanting. In those cases where planting is needed, it is generally done by hand, using either 2year old bare root seedlings, 2-1 bare root seedlings(2 years in a seed bed then lifted and spend 1yr in a transplant bed), or 1 yr old plugs (google it). The tools used are either a shovel, a dibble (google it) or a hoedad (google it).

Weekend_Sawyer

I have spent alot of time with a dibble bar in my hand. Only to have many of the loblolly pines I planted become deer food.
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

Wookiee

BaldBob - Thank you so much for such a comprehensive answer it helps a great deal with moving the plot along. I had hoped that loggers would be going home at the end of the day it helps the plot immensely. Everyone here has been very helpful so far the replies have been great, very informative and have helped a great deal in pointing the right direction for future research.

Wookiee

Hi, me again.

I have another question: How thick is the undergrowth in the BC interior? Is hiking relatively easy, moderate or difficult? From growing up in a relatively wild area in Quebec I always found meadows harder going than forest.

Phorester

You may have already thought of this, but there is a bunch of videos on Youtube that show cutting big trees, helilogging, skidding, etc. I'd home in on actual loggers, not tree service companies cutting yard trees.

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