researching a suitable tractor for logging...suggestions?

[dr gonzo]

Trying to research a good machine for logging,skidding...suggestions?

[beenthere]

dr gonzo
Will need more info as to log size expected, volume wanting to log, distance to travel with logging tractor, and money you want/don't want to spend.

I log with a 32 hp tractor and it handles all I need to handle on the hills I have to log and the volume I want to move at any one time. But there are huge differences in equipment depending on the need.

Whatcha got?

[thecfarm]

Going to need a 3 pt winch no matter what. Is this just for your own land? billm has a loader-trailer combo. He has a nice set up. Nice tractor too.  ;D

[woodmills1]

pretty sure there are plenty of previous discussions on this topic


each of which BTW probably has a picture of my first  or second  Payeur
Distributors well set up Kioti Logging tractor


so check out Payeur.com



and all the previous posts

[thecfarm]

Sorry woodmills I forgot about you. You need a blue tractor and than I would not forget you.

[dr gonzo]

Let's see...logging for white spruce,no less than 16" dbh at twenty plus feet. Poplars,same thing. As for volume, I'm only shooting for 100 cu. m by the fall...it's not much, but i'm only starting out. My timber lease is a twenty hectare area about a kilometer off the highway. My biggest timbers are getting upwards of 36" dbh. I'm definitely in the market for pto driven skidding winch,no question. So far, I'm thinking hst tranny and 50 odd bhp engine. Probably looking at pushing 50 k all told ,with loader,implements,winch...lots of research. Awesome forum by the way,tons of info here,and support! I have access to a big timber stage right now from a 15 hectare slash. Majority poplar,but still good lumber. When i start working days, i'll have time after my watch to haul some logs on a small trailer and put through the mill. Busy busy!

[shortlogger]

I have a 46 hp 2 wd tractor it does pretty well , if I had my choice and the cash I would move up to about a 65 hp 4x4 . But I'm always thinking bigger, better and faster ...

[thecfarm]

Working a tractor in the woods is hard on it. I've done it on my land. We had some of those 36" logs and bigger too. I would load the rear tires with something. I use calium,but beet juice works too. Get the tires with the deep cleats. Have them space out the rear tires too.You will want at least 8 ply tires, some come with 4 ply.  :  Whatever tractor you buy look to see where the hyd filter is,especially if you are buying a hst. Some tractors have them down low in front of the rear tire. If you break that off you are in a mess.A 50hp is not too bad for size.You would not want to go smaller. Don't think you are going to be able to drive through your brush either. I do cut my brush up short,but I am cutting on my own land. You will need a box on the tractor to keep stuff in. You will need a place for your saw too.  I suppose you will leave the tractor in the woods? Before living here I made a cover for the fuel tank cap and put a rod through the dip stick and locked both. I did not want someome pouring something into either place without me knowing about it.

[dr gonzo]

There's an old cutline on that goes through my lease that I have to slash out...hopefully on my time off in a couple of weeks. I have to haul the ranger out there and slash about two km's to the river. Perfect bush road for a tractor. I agree that ground clearance is a big must. The ground is soft...thick with moss. Heavy duty tires are a big thing for me. I blew out stock rubber on the ranger crawling in the middle of nowhere,not fun. Might have to hit up some dealerships to get some definitive ideas. Lots of research finding machinery. I have a 16' x 20' canvas tent i have to frame in...I'll have the tractor out at camp when working. I'll be using for jobs in town too.

[Bogue Chitto]

 

  

  5205 JD. 4x4 with FEL. Works well for me.

[woodmills1]

do yourself a favor and give up the HST for the woods and make or have made both skid plate and falling object protectors




 

[Ironwood]

I would make at least one observation, many of the newest tractors DONT impress me (regardless of brand), WAY too much electronics, sensors, and etc..... I would look for a well supported older tractor with some serious cast steel/iron for the rear housing, and all the critical components. I think all the computer aided design (CAD)  has had a "build to tolerence" effect on the tractor industry. Used to be you could take a tractor with a 4 cylinder and put a V8 or 6 in and she'd hold up NO problem (think Funk conversion on an 8N). Now I am not saying buy some thing that old, but I would look 1980-90's and look for 4x4 and serious steel housings. I have seen ALOT of busted rear housings of aluminum, and even broken three point mounts. Such a shame, i did just buy a cream puff small tractor, older JD 955 (33 HP, hydro) and it is light for dragging logs, not that it couldnt/wouldnt, but I bought it for a different kind of use.

As far as the "stock rubber on the Ranger". If you are really far out there, think about either Goodyear Run Flats, or skidloader tires. I have run both on my Gator and they were great out in the logging areas for running thru the cut off saplings and such.


Ironwood

[chevytaHOE5674]

Personally for what it sounds like you will be doing a skidder is much more suited to the task. You could buy an older skidder and still have money left over for a used tractor if you need it for other projects.

[Raider Bill]

Is a HST the same as a GST? My Kubota is a GST. Just wondering

[beenthere]

I believe the GST refers to Glide Shift Transmission. The HST is hydrostatic shift transmission and may have 2 or three manually shifted gear ranges. I believe the GST shifts through the gear ranges. Some Kubota fan may explain that better.

I have the HST and wouldn't want to go back to gears unless I was into heavy field work pulling ground-engaging tools. Just nice to have hands free from shifting.

[pineywoods]

If your needs are such that skidding 1 log at a time is acceptable, a tractor is the way to go. Skidders are fine if you need to pull several logs at a time and have enough work to keep one busy. Otherwise, they are a money pit. Which tractor?
Get ag tires, not the industrial tread. 2 wheel vs 4 wheel drive.. Money spent on 4 wheel drive is better spent on a 3 pt hydraulic winch. Lifting a big log with skidding tongs places 1/2 the weight of the log on the rear wheels and reduces the weight and traction of the front wheels. Get a good heavy rops. Belly pans are a mixed bag. They get full of oil soaked debris and can lead to a burned machine. Hp is not that important, but size is.  I'd recommend 50 to 60 hp as adequate for anything you are likely to move. Loaded tires are a mixed situation. I've run both, currently have loaded, not because of skidding, but because of front loader with forks. I concur with the advice of a well maintained older tractor being better than the gadget loaded new ones. I used a 1960's massey ferguson for years..There's a whole bunch of posts on here about do's and don'ts when using a tractor to skid logs. Do a search..

[petefrom bearswamp]

I had a JD 4020 1967 vintage for 10 years and skidded with it and it did the job.
The only minus was the front spindles  which broke with alarming regularity I put I think five on it.
It was a horse but not very fuel efficient.
I now have a Kubota 8540 (85HP) 4wd which is great, not as much iron as the JD but nothing has broken in the underpinning yet after 5 years.
I have spent the past 3 days skidding Hemlock with it and the fuel gauge reads between 3/4 and 1/2 tank.
Granted, I do not skid the diameters that exist in your area but have handled 24"dbh stuff with a small hitch OK.
I only skid about 3/4 mile (don't know the KM)
I can do 6-7 hitches a day of 3 to 4 trees depending on the size.
I work pretty slow, so there is only about 5 MBF on the landing.
My winch is a Farmi.
I have AG tires and are loaded with beet juice.
I have brought the front end up a few times. Exciting!

[thecfarm]

I like mine manual shift in the woods.Some tractors have the HST pedal on the same side as the brake. How can you lock up one tire to make a sharp turn and keep moving?I mostly put it in gear and just let it go. Only need one hand on the steering wheel anyways.But saying that we have a smaller tractor that is a HST that we just mow with and blow snow and I like it that tractor.

[treefarmer87]

speaking of tractor logging, i was at tractor supply getting fittings and tractor supply had a neat 3 point hydralic grapple and arch for $2000. it was neat

[beenthere]

I like mine manual shift in the woods.Some tractors have the HST pedal on the same side as the brake. How can you lock up one tire to make a sharp turn and keep moving?I mostly put it in gear and just let it go. Only need one hand on the steering wheel anyways.But saying that we have a smaller tractor that is a HST that we just mow with and blow snow and I like it that tractor.

Deere doesn't do that - has the individual brakes on left side from the HST. Some have a single pedal for forward and heel down for reverse. That I find awkward and tiring. But each to their own liking. 
When asking sales reps of those brands that do that, they just brush it off and say people don't use individual brakes so it is not a problem. (to them )
But with 4wd, there is less braking needed for turning and for getting traction to the non-slipping tire. Also, 4wd helps a lot on front spindles when poking around in the woods amongst rocks, stumps, and downed trees.

[Ironwood]

If you search it ALOT on the internet (by a given model/brand) you will find the weak spots of most tractors. I looked for months online to try to decide on tractor upgrade or a skidloader and ended up doing both. I could tell you ALOT about 25-40 HP tractors from that investment in time, but you likely need bigger, so no need there. But that said, if there IS a weak link in a design it is likely SOMEONE out there is talking about it. Look around, sniff out a good oldie.


Ironwood

[petefrom bearswamp]

another plug for Kubota, expensive, but worth it for the higher HP.
I looked at a  Deere when I bought this one and for the same money could only get 65 HP from deere.
I put 4 Hemlock trees behind my tractor this morning 1 17"dbh 21 ft long , 1 16dbh 29 1/2 ft long one 18"dbh 21 ft long and one 20 dbh 33 ft long and it handled it although I couldn't get into high range until I was on the level.
Used 4wd but still had to use the brake pedals which are on the rh side.

[Peter Drouin]

Hi all, this is what I use  .   

    A 2000 JD, 80 Horse 9 speed forword 3 speed R.  heat and AC , radio , and nice and dry  ;D I did the no cab thing for a long time. I just have to look out for the windows. and thats ok , if I have to, I will get the timberjack :D :D A friend in town, he could pull out in 1 day , what my JD would do in 4 or 5 days :D :D :D :D :D :D                            I have a wallinsten winch good for 6 ton with a 1/2" cable . will pull all I want at an idle. 

  

   It all works for me, I go lite and often. 2 trees the JD will do more I don;t want to break it :D :D :D :D :D :D  it might be my last one :D :D :D

[repmma]

A skidder isnt a tractor but not being able to afford both, and having a hard time hooking a bush hog up to a timberjack I found this Ford 5030.   


 

For what it is, plus the bush hog, rototiller and post hole digger that came with it I couldnt have bought any new 40hp JD.  And like I said, for what it is its ALOT more than anything less than the 5000series JD's.  Which I really liked the JD 5055E but I couldnt justify the extra $13k and be minus attachments, and finding a used one of those was tough. 

By the way the 5030 is around 63hp, weight I think is around 8,000 or 9,000.  Tires are loaded and I dont know what that adds.  Havent had much problems with it, cut a good bit of pine pulp, hauled it tree length, hate guessing on how much it would pull a twitch... around a cord...?  Never really max it out, what ever is comfortable.  I'm just maintaining my 131 acres and sawing some logs time to time.  Thats another plus for a tractor... forks!! 

Plenty of people work tractors in the woods, multifunctional, low overhead, low production but sometimes thats better than scraping by with a $50K loan and having to go "balls to the walls".


 

[thecfarm]

repmma,a nice set up you have there. I use to have a 2120,40hp. Looks alot like yours.

Peter,that is one nice tractor. But the way I operate,I would have the glass all broke out of that.

[repmma]

Thanks but i'm kinda liking that JD above mine!  But a cab like that would have the same affect as a nice warm house in winter... i wouldnt want to get out of it!!

[Ironwood]

That Ford 5030 is EXACTLY what I am talking about. That is a Shaburu (sic) diesel, I looked at several of those vintage Fords in the 30/40 HP'ish range. NICE unit.

Ironwood

[lumberjack48]

I skidded with a Minneapolis Moline U when i was 16. This was back when we were strip cutting, i pulled a one cord dray with it. The one we had, had a 6 cylinder Hercules gas motor, loaded tires, she would pull. I took the seat off so i could stand up and drive, this made it easy to get off an on. Heres a picture of one close to what we had, this ones smaller.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/email.asp?emid=547215

[dr gonzo]

i was up at the slash area i had mentioned...i'll have to post some pics of what i have to work with...will update tomorrow nite.

[dr gonzo]

i found a pretty decent ford 5030...i believe it was in ohio? if i pursue it,i'll have to deal with the import fees or whatever...plus shipping via truck.

[Peter Drouin]

Peter,that is one nice tractor. But the way I operate,I would have the glass all broke out of that.
[/quote]Good one :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Mark K]

I skidded with a Belarus 825 (around 85HP) with a Farmi JL601 winch before I bought my first skidder. It was a very crude built tractor but only thing I did to it in the six years I skidded with it was fix tires. It had a full cab which was very nice during the winter. I never knocked a window out luckily. It would always start during the winter with the fire plug.

[Kodiakmac]

Neighbour of mine has a 3220 (maybe 3230?) Case IH 4WD he's rigged up for logging.  He's got a wallenstein winch and he's built his own canopy/cage. He's happy with it.  It's compact and tough and it has a small turning radius and fair clearance.  I think it's pretty well the same tractor as the older IH 484s.  Built in Doncaster England - good engines but a bugger to start in the cold.  You need an in-line heater.

[dr gonzo]

i was looking at case farmall 55a's...nice looking machine...anyone know of how they are to operate?

[Kodiakmac]

dr gonzo.  The 55As are made in India.  I can't speak for the CaseIH tractors, but I know that the JD tractors that are made in India and the far east are nowhere near as reliable as the North American and western European models.

My cousin, a JD mechanic has this standard answer if someone asks him if the Asian tractors are any good: "Hell yes, they should make twice as many of them...and ship them half as far!"

[lumberjack48]

I knew a guy about 30 yrs ago that had a Farmall half track with log forks on it. I couldn't believe the wood that he pulled with it. He was logging Norway pine logs when i seen it at work, logs were piled 6' high. I was always trying to buy stumpage from him, he told me he thought that a skidder would be to hard on the ground. Heres a pic of a Ford with a half track system on it.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6180653&;

[Ironwood]

Another very common track like that was called Arp's.

Ironwood

[chevytaHOE5674]

ARP half tracks are difficult/almost impossible to get parts for. Neighbor has a set on an 8n and has been having to fabricate new cleats and rubber pieces as they haven't been made in many years.

[dr gonzo]

trying to upload pics....rrrrr

[davch00]

 This is what I use.

 
It's been in the family since it was new. It may not be suitable for you but it works great for me. Those old IH's are some tough tractors.

[lumberjack48]

davch00 good set up, but very dangerous in the wrong hands.

Thats what i'd buy, except with a wide front end, and put a headache rack on it just in case it decided to go over backwards. I'd all so want a log fork with grapple on the front end to pile logs and move brush with. [ fluid and chains ]
[ FARMI Winch ] A person can buy a good tractor with front end loader for $2 to 4 K then set it up the way you want it. I personally would not buy one of these new little 4x4 tractors, [$30. K] to light, to much to break to easily, i like old iron so you can use it, not play with it, just me, old school logger.

The farmers around here skidded a lot of wood with a Ford N in the winter. The farmers in the 60's, 70's always logged a little in the winter, they sold a load or two a week to one of the local Timber Brokers. This was a pretty hot topic with the loggers, you didn't see use farming in the summer.

[davch00]

Yes it can get dangerous it you don't watch it but I'm lucky that overpasses, levees, and ditch dumps are the only kind of hills we have around here. I can change the front to a wide front end but since this tractor has been in the family since new (my grandpa bought it brand new) I'm going to eventually do a full restoration. I've been waiting for the right deal to come along on a 706 or a 656 hydro. They are a little heavier, a little faster, and got more power but are not much bigger physically than the 560. 

[drobertson]

I have seen allot of different models, the fords are nice that they sit a bit lower than most and can be picked up cheaper than the green ones. front end loaders with fork attachments a plus, this means 4 X 4. Winches a plus too. Might think about a forester wagon. Use the loader and take out a bigger load. Good luck, Nice looking farm by the way, looks allot more flat than we have here.

[davch00]

It's very flat here. The only hills we have of any kind are man made. I have seen a few people that where amazed at how flat it actually is here.

Droberston What part of Missouri are you from?

Sorry I'm trying to hijack the thread.

[lumberjack48]

I know a guy that used a 1010 JD cat with a front end log loader with grapple. He pulled a dray with it, he sawed all the trees up in the woods. He'd unhook the dray and load it with the cat, when loaded hook up and take it to the landing. Then unhook and unload the dray, he had clean wood doing this way.
He had 3 to 4 guys cutting and piling pulpwood, he'd skid 15 to 20 cords a day doing it like this, with the 1010.
The local saw mill liked his clean saw bolts, they bought his wood when they didn't need wood, because of that.

[davch00]

Sorry I'm trying to hijack the thread.

That's suppose to say not trying. I guess my proofreading skills ain't to good.

[Bogue Chitto]

This is what I use.

 
Those old IH's are some tough tractors.

They are good tractors.  I have a 674 IH.  Had it since the 70s.

[dr gonzo]

The old man just scored a free tractor (!) ...She needs quite a bit of love,tho...might invest some time in to that puppy...i have no idea what machine it actually is offhand...Needs rubber, might be able to find a loader for it...good project to get my skills to work!

[beenthere]

Well we are waiting to hear more about it.  ;)

Free might be good....but then, might not   ;D

[dr gonzo]

if it's only a few bucks to get her up and running, so be it. if she can work the logs and such,i'm winning
not like cracked out chuck sheen winning,i must add