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Diesel Problem - Injection Pump ??

Started by Cypressstump, July 30, 2012, 08:43:14 AM

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Cypressstump

Experienced a problem with my forklift this weekend. Was running fine, went to pick up a load and she died. This is a Case 586E 6k forklift.Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Here's the problem : motor dies like starving for fuel. It will start right back up, running strong on all 4 cylinders, then starve out and die again.
This 4 cylinder motor fuel system is fairly simple. Fuel tank supply is higher than filters / pump, fuel supply line to filters, line to pump, from pump to injectors, end of rail return back to tank.

I drained all fuel from tank, dropped all bottom of tank connections ( drain plug, supply outlet, return inlet), power washed inside of tank with water and Dawn liquid, dried tank bone dry, cleaned all fuel lines, installed new filters ( primary and secondary), cleaned lines from filters to injection pump, cleaned return line from end of rail back to tank. Put 10 gallons of fresh diesel, purged air from filters ,,,same thing, fires right off, sounds normal, revs up good, then seems to starve for fuel again, slowly dies.

On the side of the injector pump, there's a small bolt/plug. I thought there may be water or the like in the pump, so I opened that little plug a bit, fired off the motor, it runs like it should as long as that plug is relieving some pressure with fuel coming out, motor revs, idles, no apparent air in the system cause it runs smoothly as it should,,, close off that plug and she dies again.

I'm thinking either not enough pressure or too much. Removed the end of injector rail return line, started motor, and fuel came out while running, but I would think a bit more flow than I was seeing, fuel was coming out, but not a full on forceful stream as I expected.

I'm at the point of believing there may be an obstruction internal of the pump or something sticking inside there....???

Any suggestions or ideas?
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

oldseabee

I think that there is a restrictor fitting in the fuel return line or at the outlet of the pump. could be plugged.

Cypressstump

Thanks oldseabee,, !

After speaking to a Case mechanic, he said the same thing, was not doubting you, but spoke to Case before reading your reply.

He said the same thing, there is a ball restrictor in the return fuel outlet on the pump that was confident as the culprit. The system is over pressuring itself. He said I could clean the ball/fitting or knock the ball out all together. In my case, since I now have THE cleanest old fuel tank/system to be found on one of these things due to my cleaning efforts, I am comfortable knowing I should not have any trash in my fuel system.

Love those easy fixes, just hope the washing machine don't dry on me from all the diesel soaking clothes I had on.     >:(
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

slider

had the same problem with a jd loader the restrictor had been removed .the culprit was a small piece of rubber lodged in a metal tube connecting the pump to the return line.good luck. al
al glenn

Gary_C

Don't get to comfortable just yet. That something in the return system could mean that something inside the pump is deteriorating and is about to fail. If it is one of those roosa master pumps, there was a part that would deteriorate and required a complete rebuild. Can't remember what part, but just saying, watch out for more problems.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

thurlow

When I started reading your post, I immediately assumed it was a clogged return line;  easy, but TEMPORARY fix.  It's just a matter of time before the pump must be rebuilt.  Have dealt with this for years on old JD diesels;  sometimes they'll run for months and sometimes only a few hours, but it will happen again............
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

Cypressstump

Man ,,, ya'll tryin' to scare my checkbook or what ?? ::)

Rebuilt pumps are only 650-800 buck range. :'( :'(  ouch !
Will find out this evening what surprise lurks in that fitting, hopefully varnish gunk from the machine setting up several years before my owning it. It purrs like a kitten till it builds pressure, I am hoping that may be a good sign. I want it to BE a good sign.  I want it to be an easy fix. Did ya'll miss that point or what..? ;) ;)

Thanks fellers,,, with my luck it's gonna cost, but I really want my luck to change,for the better that is.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

thurlow

If it's the rubber ring (name escapes me) inside the pump that's failed, the return line fitting will be full of what looks like coffee grounds.  Before investing in a rebuilt pump, I'd investigate having mine rebuilt;  have had 2 done this year for old 4020s at a diesel repair shop in Millington, TN;  $435 each, as I recall.
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

snowstorm

Quote from: Gary_C on July 30, 2012, 01:02:53 PM
Don't get to comfortable just yet. That something in the return system could mean that something inside the pump is deteriorating and is about to fail. If it is one of those roosa master pumps, there was a part that would deteriorate and required a complete rebuild. Can't remember what part, but just saying, watch out for more problems.
i am with you on this one. i had a 580 case acted about the same as this one. i bought the seal kit for the pump. seems like the guy that resealed it didnt use all the parts but there was something that was a common failure. a round disc????? it was 20+ years ago. even tho it has no transfer pump i belive there is one in the injection pump

Cypressstump

This 586E does not have a transfer pump either. I removed the restrictor, cleaned it, installed it, fired right off. An hour later clogged again (remember me wanting an easy fix right ? ? )  ???  The next time I removed the restrictor, I run the motor with it out, and saw some black particles coming out with the fuel, revved up a bit to increase flow, did not see any more stuff, reinstalled and it ran fine the rest of the evening.

I will find somewhere local to rebuild the pump as it seems ya'll are dead on , having been there before. I reckon them black particles are black death to this pump.  Thanks much for the help on this guys, I appreciate it Vury Much !
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Cypressstump

Well,

After taking out the little ball orrifce in the outlet line of the pump, the return line fitting, it doesn't plug as bad........ ;D  The Case mechanic said there is a neoprene washer that is a cushion to the timing part of the pump. Once it completely goes away, the motor will over run itself and can lead to major issues at high rpm.
I found a local shop with a one day turnaround time for complete total rebuild for 450 bucks. And I will once more be blessed with draining the tank, lines and installing new filters and freash diesel..

Thanks for ya'lls help.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

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