homemade stain on green wood

nrp0450 · July 10, 2012, 03:22:03 PM

We're about to start working on a covered porch for my parents' house and are thinking to use the homemade stain/finish I've seen mentioned around the forum. The name I've seen used is Uncle Larry's Walnut stain. It's 10 parts diesel, 1 part boiled linseed oil, and 1 part non fiber roofing tar. I have a couple of questions about using it though.
1. Can we put it on green wood? We're planning to put the wood up straight from the mill. As the moisture leaves the wood will it mess up the stain? Will the stain "stick" to green wood?
2. Will it keep the wood from molding? We've had hot moist weather here in East Texas and almost all of the SYP we've milled has molded. It was stickered in an open air carport. We even tried setting a board out suspended between the two ends, with open air all around it, and it still grew some mold (though not as much as the stickered stack). If we can treat the wood with this homemade stain right when it comes off the mill will it grow mold underneath the stain?

Jim_Rogers · July 10, 2012, 03:47:40 PM

There has been a lot of posts about mold on fresh cut wood in humid areas of the country here on the FF.
You may need to do a search about that and find some more information about it.

I have not seen or used the formula of stain that you are mentioning, so I can't comment on it.

I have however recommended boiled linseed oil and turpentine (50% 0f each) for putting on green wood, oak, for trailer decking. Many that I have sold fresh green red oak to have used it and have good luck with it.

Jim Rogers

beenthere · July 10, 2012, 05:19:41 PM

QuoteWe're about to start working on a covered porch for my parents' house and are thinking to use the homemade stain/finish

Don't think I would put that finish on a covered porch, and for certain wouldn't try it out for the first time on someone else's porch.
Go with a commercial stain and follow their directions....likely means drying the lumber some bit first.

Some light mixture of bleach/water will do wonders with mold that you see on a board, and some borate mixture should help prevent the mold.

nrp0450 · July 11, 2012, 01:01:14 AM

Thanks for the answers, guys.

In the last few days I think I read every thread on here about mold. There's definitely a lot of good info, but no "home runs" that I found. I didn't think there was any chance our suspended board (under the carport) would mold, but it did. So we're trying to find out what our options are. I really like the idea of putting the boards up straight from the mill versus having to move them twice. But I think they would mold without some chemical to protect them. I saw several different recipes for borate mixtures: Solubor/Timbor and water, Borax and water, borax and boric acid and antifreeze (cooked together). Which should I try first?

When people build with green wood when do they stain the wood? For example, if you're putting B&B siding straight from the mill, do you leave it exposed to the weather until it gets down around 20% MC (which is around where most of the commercial stains want the wood)? Or is there another way to do it?

One last question, the borate mixtures leach out if the wood gets rained on, right? So if I want to use the wood green and go the borate route I would need to keep the structure covered until it's dry enough to stain.

We may have to break down and sticker everything. But if there's a way to deal with the mold and build with green wood, that's our first choice.

PC-Urban-Sawyer · July 11, 2012, 10:37:46 AM

Keeping the structure "covered" till dry might lead to MORE mold rather than less.

Can you hold off on cutting the siding until the temp is low enough to lessen the mold growth, then saw the siding, sticker it and dry it (after treating with borates) then stain and install it?

Good Luck!

Herb

nrp0450 · July 11, 2012, 12:48:08 PM

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on July 11, 2012, 10:37:46 AM
Can you hold off on cutting the siding until the temp is low enough to lessen the mold growth, then saw the siding, sticker it and dry it (after treating with borates) then stain and install it?

We could. And actually probably will, since we'll be moving slow on this project and the siding won't be for quite a while. But it's not just an issue with siding. The first thing we'll cut is the 4x8 beams. If we put those in place straight from the mill without any treatment they'll grow some mold. They won't be visible so it won't matter for looks. But I read that mold affects the strength. Is it not enough to worry about? Will they eventually dry out and stop growing new mold and still be strong? Or do we need to put the whole project on hold until the Fall?

I tempted to mix up a little of the Uncle Larry's or the BLO/turpentine and put it on some fresh sawn stuff and then set the wood out in the open air and see what it does. We've been getting mold the next day after milling so we would know pretty quick if it works. I'll keep you posted.

two tired · July 11, 2012, 01:34:35 PM

Are you sweeping the sawdust off the lumber as soon as it comes off the mill?

nrp0450 · July 11, 2012, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: two tired on July 11, 2012, 01:34:35 PM
Are you sweeping the sawdust off the lumber as soon as it comes off the mill?

Yes, the last stuff we milled, which is supposed to become 3x6 rafters, we were extra careful in the sweeping. And we set them up on the back deck leaning against the roof (where the porch is going to be) so there would be maximum airflow around them. And we sprayed them with bleach. They still molded. It has rained the last four days here and highs in the low 90s. I think chemicals is our only option (other than waiting for cool weather).

My dad bought boiled linseed oil and turpentine this morning. We're going to try cleaning the rafters with bleach and tri-sodium phosphate and then put the BLO/turpentine mix on them and see if they mold again.

If anyone has thoughts on how much we need to try to deal with mold on beams and joists that won't show, I'd love to hear it.

beenthere · July 11, 2012, 02:44:10 PM

Bleach will kill mold that is already there, and maybe some of the live bacteria that blossoms into mold.

But the bleach won't prevent the bacteria from getting a foothold in the future.

Some sequence of pics would be helpful to better understand what you are facing here. If possible, a fresh sawn surface, and a pic every other day might demonstrate the problem. Temps and relative humidity notes may also help. You are getting some quick mold problems, from the sounds of it.

nrp0450 · July 11, 2012, 03:04:49 PM

Yeah, I hadn't done any reading about mold on here when we first put bleach on. Now I know that it doesn't do anything to prevent it.

I'll try to get some pics of the next batch we mill.

I have a question for Jim and any other timber framers out there.... you're generally working with green wood, right? Or has it dried some by the time you use it? Do you put a stain or finish on it at some point? When?

scsmith42 · July 11, 2012, 04:45:09 PM

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on July 11, 2012, 10:37:46 AM

Can you hold off on cutting the siding until the temp is low enough to lessen the mold growth, then saw the siding, sticker it and dry it (after treating with borates) then stain and install it?

Good Luck!

Herb

This is the approach that I would take as well. I would shoot for early fall, so that they can have maximum drying time before next summer.

I've used Jim's BLO/Turpentine mix and have been very pleased with the results.

nrp0450 · July 11, 2012, 05:45:35 PM

Quote from: scsmith42 on July 11, 2012, 04:45:09 PM
This is the approach that I would take as well. I would shoot for early fall, so that they can have maximum drying time before next summer.

I've used Jim's BLO/Turpentine mix and have been very pleased with the results.

Would you wait to mill the beams and joists too?

oklalogdog · July 22, 2012, 05:53:20 PM

I bought a borate powder based treatment called "Penetreat." It's supposed to be a good product. Only time will tell however. Found out about it on the "Bearfort Lodge" website. This site also has a lot of info about homeade stains and preservatives.

Bearfort Lodge Link: http://www.bearfortlodge.com/

Penetreat Link: http://www.sashco.com/Log/products-penetreat.html

scsmith42 · July 22, 2012, 09:29:15 PM

Quote from: nrp0450 on July 11, 2012, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: scsmith42 on July 11, 2012, 04:45:09 PM
This is the approach that I would take as well. I would shoot for early fall, so that they can have maximum drying time before next summer.

I've used Jim's BLO/Turpentine mix and have been very pleased with the results.

Would you wait to mill the beams and joists too?

Yes. I would even consider waiting to fell the trees until October, or thereabouts, in order to limit the stain inside. Once I started felling, I would mill the beams / joists first, and the siding last. The reason why is that you will probably get some siding boards from the side of the logs when you're milling the beams, plus the siding won't require so long to dry.

Another good external stain is to use 25 gallons of diesel, 25 gallons of used motor oil (from diesel - not gasoline engines), and 5 gallons of non-fibrous roofing tar. Mix it all up in a 55 gallon drum and you have an inexpensive external stain that lasts for years.

nrp0450 · July 22, 2012, 10:20:01 PM

I don't know if I can wait. Are you saying that mold/blue stain on the beams and joists would be a problem structurally? They won't show so we don't care what they look like.

scsmith42 · July 23, 2012, 06:52:43 AM

Quote from: nrp0450 on July 22, 2012, 10:20:01 PM
I don't know if I can wait. Are you saying that mold/blue stain on the beams and joists would be a problem structurally? They won't show so we don't care what they look like.

No problems structurally, so it would not make sense to delay.