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Debarking wood for log furniture

Started by Ax- man, July 08, 2012, 09:48:26 PM

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Ax- man

Hello again,

I posted in this forum awhile back about making rustic log furniture from tree parts. I am still at it and have sold a few pieces at a local antique dealer's store for a good price but need to find a way to get faster at assembling these benches and stools I have been making to increase the money i make on my end after the store takes their sales commision.. My biggest stumbling block is making tenon's and debarking some spiecies of wood.

I did a search here and the Logman tenon maker from Bailey's got good reviews so I am going to get the kit to attach to my new fancy router I bought a few months ago. Hopefully this will speed up my tenon making instead of doing it with hand tools. If anyone has some input on this I would appreciate any comments.

The other stumbling block is debarking wood especially small logs that become legs for benches and stools. I have added to my collection of drawknives but still looking for a faster way if there is one. A drawknive on slab wood for the seat of a bench is no problem but debarking small logs with a sharp drawknive  seems to take longer than it should.  I have tried wire wheels and sanding disks on a angle grinder with mixed results depending on wood species. If anyone has some other ideas I would like to hear them.

I know that green wood is the easiest to debark but time is not on my side at this time of the year. Most of my wood has been sitting around for awhile in the hopes that mother nature will do the job for me but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.


WDH

De-bark your wood in the spring when the cambium becomes active and the buds start to break.  Then, you can store the wood for later use.  If you get the timing right, the bark will just peel off.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dboyt

Dyna products (http://www.dyna-products.com/) has a line of log furniture manufacturing equipment, including a debarker that gives a rustic look to the logs. Problem is, they're not cheap.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Piston

Is the bark too tight or young to use a bark spud on?  It seem it a bark spud would work great on larger logs with thick bark but not sure if your using mostly smaller diameter logs, which I assume is the case. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

shelbycharger400


1938farmall

ax-man,  your op asked about cutting tenons.  check out the companion vid in the link posted by shelby that shows the router-based tenon maker.   the threaded rod that centers the tenon is the secret - it controls the advance speed as you cut the tenon & is adjustable for diameter.   i made one that works like a champ.  al
aka oldnorskie

shenandoahsawmill

I have been testing a 20 lb demolition hammer with a sharpened clay spade. Works great for larger logs. You might give this a try on a smaller scale with a small hammer drill set on the hammer (not drill) setting and a chisel that has the end shaped like a bark spud. An air tool (cheap and light) might be the way to go.  Gary

lynnds

Ax-man, the chosen method of debarking of logs can depend upon several things; type/species of log, size, age of log and condition of bark, and perhaps most importantly the visual results you desire.  Some equipment is great for fast debarking, yet the speed is traded for end results.  For example, large angle grinders and/or chainsaw attachments (I have both and rarely use them) are quicker than some other methods.  The optional "trade" is that, if you desire to have the beetle or worm trails on the log, or various patterns and colors near the surface of the log, it is better to remove the bark carefully, and yes, slower, with simple tools such as a shovel, draw knife, small hand-held angle grinder with a coarse grit disc, or hand-held belt sander.  Again, this depends upon how loose the bark is on the log, and the species of log.  There is no "right" or "wrong" method.  Different methods provide different results.  The choice is yours.  If you want the results to be "white and plain", then use tools which will go deep with quickness.  I prefer to retain the natural beauty just below the bark, and this does require careful, light pressure work with the tools, which for me is usually a draw knife.
Happy crafting to you!

Jeff

They could not have chosen a thinner barked species then aspen to demonstrate that peeler on in that video. I have to wonder what it would do with white pine or cedar. Whitepine has a thick heavy bark, Cedar bark is pretty abrasive. I think the sharp life of a tool likethat would be minimal on cedar, or anything other than the Aspen shown.
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shelbycharger400

thats what i thought jeff,
looking at the pictures,  they are replaceable cutters. they look like Heavy planer blades in it.  not those cheapy planer blades either. Looking further into it, i seen dewalts dw680 the  NEW 3 1/2 in planer with Thick blades that are almost an inch wide, and slotted for bolts., Hmm i have access to lathes and mills and i just might have to make one this spring up at the college.  nothin more than makin a bench plane, only in  all metal tho.    I have debarked an oak log or 2, and its easier than ash, and ive done them both with a sledge hammer and a 3 in wide mason chisel
The bark isnt that tough as the wood underlying , but wet oak to me seems rather soft.

Ax- man

Sorry for not keepingup with the thread, had some technical problems with the computer and the site. I had a reply typed out awhile back but it wouldn't post  :'( :'(

Made some changes since I started this thread that have really made a difference in how fast I can put this make the pieces and joints for the log furniture. Finding time to do it is still a problem but I don't make a living at this so it has to take a backseat to the things I do for a living.

Let's talk about the debarking. You guy's really posted some heavy duty tools and methods for doing this chore . I didn't know that such stuff existed. Unfortunely , I am not into the log home building biz so this is way out of my league for what I do. Most of what I do is small diameter logs and limbs so the drawknife is still the tool of choice although that air chisel idea is something I am going to give a try. I am like lynnds and like to expose as much of the natural beauty of the wood if possible.I am not that keen of insect damage though

What I did to help me with this debarking was make a 16" cant out of a pine log that stands about waist high. Then I took a scrap 2"x 10"x 3 feet long  and lag bolted it to the  cant . I then take my little portable vise which is bolted to a smaller board and then clamp it to the cant board. I can now take a small log or limb wood any where from 3 to 7 foot long , clamp it in the vise and work just about the whole length of the piece with a draw knife. Much better and easier that using the sawbuck and binding strap method. I can get more torque on the drawknife and work more surface area of the  of the log before I have to unclamp it. One thing alway's leads to another. Now I have plans for a bigger vise similar to a plumbers clamp for working on pipe so I can do slightly bigger diameter logs.Pieces of wood that gave me trouble before are not going to be a problem now which prompted me to start this thread to see what other guys mihgt be doing different.

Now the tennon making. My tenon maker from Bailey's came in shortly after starting this thread. I like it and have made much better tenon's than I can with the hand tools and do them much faster. Getting the thing set-up wasn't what I would call a user freindly experience for me . MY new HD Sears router base didn't adapt to the metal frame which meant drilling holes which I am not an expert. I finally got it mounted and centered after much screwing around. I should have just got my Dremel out and made slots to screw it down to the mounting base. I didn't want this to be a permanantly mounted to my work bench due to space and the mess. I wanted it portable like my little vise I mentioned earlier so I could move it and clamp it down to a couple of saw horses or work outside if need be. My first attempt at bolting to my clamp board resulted in the plastic blocks being to tight to put in the metal frame . Finally after more alterations I got that part working good. Finally after all this screwing around I was ready to make a machine cut tenon. I was quite happy with the first one although there is a learning curve to doing this and like all things takes practice.

I can see now that I have used this tenon maker that it is kind of a beginner tool. Farmall made a post about the upscale version of the Logman tenon make . Now that I have tried mine I can see more clearly what he meant about that self centering screw. If I stay at this and can make a little more side money I can there will be a time for an upgrade.

Thanks for all the replies and input. It has helped me out . Hopefully this thread will stay alive for a little longer.

Anyone got any input on the  Log Wizard attachment for a chainsaw. I have asked a guy here locally that is into this log furniture stuff but on a more serious level than I am. He didn't think it was all that great and he has tried one. A chainsaw dealer here sold them a long time ago. He sold one new and it was long before it was for sale again only used and abused. I guess it didn't work out to good for the guy who bought. I thought one might work to reduce the diameter of a small log to expose the heartwood like in a Walnut. I am not serious about one but wondered if it might work.


shelbycharger400

the timber frame builder i know has one, last i seen it had a lot of dust on it,  his chain mortiser is nice but he deals with square logs.
not sure if id want a 3 bladed planer head on the end of a chain saw,  its jumpy

JoeB

Howdy, might sound stupid but try a pressure washer, depending on the type, i have three, one 7-800 psi, another 1900 psi, and another that with the "turbo tip" will take paint off of a cinder block. Just an idea. Cheers!

Dave S

A pressure washer works just fine. I work with white cedar most of the time, give it a couple of months after cutting to shink a little, you really need the turbo nozzle so you dont fuzz the wood. A min. of 2700 lbs is needed - you would get away with less but it would take more time and might leave the slick stuff (don't know how to spell candium) on the wood. If you get up around 3500 lbs pressure you can really clean any of the pines or just about anything else. When the log drys its all done, ready for finish. Make sure you use a turbo nozzel or you'll spend more time sanding the fuzz of than your spending peeling by hand. A cheap way to make tennons is use a hole saw, drill the end of the piece with it and draw knife the wood off the outside of the cut you just made, your tennion will be about a quarter inch smaller that the size marked on the hole saw. Use quality deep hole saws (millwalke), three or four saws and an arbor and your good to go, less than $50-$60.
Dave

bandit403

I have just started to make furniture so I don't know alot. I bought a Tenonator, and it seems to work well. I liked the idea of one head to cut different size tenons so that is why I went with this one.

http://www.logwoofer.com/tenonator.php

Cedar Savage

Quote from: bandit403 on December 03, 2012, 11:48:20 AM
I have just started to make furniture so I don't know alot. I bought a Tenonator, and it seems to work well. I liked the idea of one head to cut different size tenons so that is why I went with this one.

http://www.logwoofer.com/tenonator.php

That thing looks wicked....how does it work? Do the blades hold ok?
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

bandit403

I have only used it once so far, but it work well for me.

Cedar Savage

I found this video on a shaving horse, it would be handy to have.
Gonna have to make one....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NApkpI9GiY0
"They fried the fish with bacon and were astonished, for no fish had ever seemed so delicious before."         Mark Twain

justallan1

I'm thinking of making one of the Tenonators. I think they would work great.

newstick

Any one have to know what a tenonizer is? you can find it on the web. I have one it works great. They attach to your table saw. My friend built his own and it works pretty well.
Also for peeling Makita makes a curved planner they work pretty good.I use mine on tougher logs.
Another thing is what Draw knife a person uses. I have a Barr and it works better than any others I've used. 'keep it sharpe" A guy that peels for me can out peel that angle grinder with his Barr draw knife. "He is very tough" :o
Im am owner operator of Newberg Forest Products.We are a convental logging company with a Timbco feller buncher, two John Deere skidders , a strokeboom delimber, and a Serco log loader with circle slasher saw.
In the summer time my other company builds Handcrafted Log Homes. I love the woods!

hwsh

hi all ,first post here.I think this might really help someone.my friend & rustic wood worker david built this machine for peeling sticks
and small logs.these are of the machine being built :



 



 



 

next a video of the first time trying it  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QOA75k8lLg


one more  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DV07-bY7wQ

David made some changes to the machine later .I am sure he will be happy to answer questions about it .

his Facebook  http://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Harrisons-Rustic-Furniture-workshop/107213216018100.

hope this helps since I learned so much from this place.     


TheWoodsman

There is a specific type of sander used by the large rustic furniture manufacturers such as Old Hickory.  They are foreign made and I just can't remember the name at the moment.  They use scalloped edge belts which are turned inside out  I'll have to dig up my "secrets of rustic furniture manufacturing" file when I get back to my office.

To the OP, don't you like any of the drill-mounted tenon tools ?  I used to have the heavy steel ones from Bignell Machine which were several hundred dollars each and mounted on a 5 hp motor. 
2009 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG28, WM-DH4000 dry kiln, & lots of other great "toys"

I am the Woodsman, the four-wheelin', tree-farmin', custom-furniture-makin' descendant of Olaf "The Woodcutter" Ingjaldsson.

LittleJohn

About tenon cutters, I have a couple 1" and 1.5", the later takes a monster drill to run.  One thing to think about before buying one is do you want a tenon with chamfer or tenon with radius.

I have radius tenon cutters, and they are very difficult to cut if you trying to turn down the maximum size with a flat face.  For example, 1.5" cutter will handle up to about 3" maybe a little over; if you don't draw shave down the end to somewhere near 2", and put a pretty decent tamper on the log otherwise you will not be able to hold onto the drill as the cutter jump all over as you try to start your cut.

Ax- man

I have been logged out for quite some time and decided to check in and see what was going on. ;D ;D I was surprised to see this thread back up on top

I am still doing the log furniture thing but I don't have the time to do it as much as I would like. Debarking these small diameter logs is still challenging but not as hard as it used to be. I have tried a few different approaches to the problem. Leaning the small log against something and then peeling or shaving  it so to speak  with a chainsaw going with the grain works OK but is noisy and eats up too much gas and bar oil. An adze or foot ax works pretty good for getting tough bark off and then using a good sharp hatchet to clean-up after the adze. These two tools work good but leave a very rough log that makes it kind of hard to use a draw knife to get a nice smooth surface. If it is hard to use the draw knife I get out the angle grinder with the 40 or 60 grit flap wheel to smooth the log out. This  works OK but is messy and breathing dust is not good for the lungs unless you wear a mask.

A good sharp draw knife still seems the most economical and can produce quick results if the bark is not to tight and the log does not have to many knots in it.

To answer the question about drill powered tenon makers. I have nothing against them just can't justify the cost. I would like to try one. the one I got from Bailey's does the job but does have it's shortcomings

m wood

Ax-man, I just CANT find pics of my old shop, but here's what I did for peeling.  Had a dirt floor so I burried two 4"x4" posts in-line 6 feet apart, then ran a 4" wide 6/4 board between them and bolted and braced.  This whole set up was about belt high when standing next to it.  I could get to both sides of this set up and around both ends. (I hated sitting down to peel, and the short little distances I could get between moving and adjusting the log).  Up the sides of the posts and raised 2" above the 6/4 board, were 2 side boards that cradled my log in place.  Using a monster Jorgenson clamp that was stationary by screwing it to the bottom of the 6/4 board made it possible to quickly clamp into the cradles and adjust to any large or small log I wanted to peel, and any length possible if it (the log) would fit in the shop.  I could use the grinder, the hand power planer or the drawknife in this stet up.  I could make 12' long passes or short strokes, whatever my arms and back felt like doing.  It was a fraction of the time.  I would also clamp with 2 jorgensons when I was cutting tennons with my Barkers or Veritas.

I miss that Skinny little clamp table and will make another some day in my new shop with a concrete floor.
mark

PS; Make it sturdy, there's a lot of torque on those 2 posts :)   
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