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Started by Brian_Weekley, June 28, 2012, 08:28:47 PM

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Brian_Weekley

I've been reading up on beetles and other wood boring insects.  Also read a few of the older posts about insects here in the Forum.  How do I know I'm not contaminating my entire timber frame with a single beam that may have an infestation I don't know about?  I know many beetle species only live in the wood for a year or so, but what about something more sinister lurking inside like powder posts?  How common and likely is this?  Am I being too paranoid or is this a serious concern for the timber framer?
e aho laula

WDH

Here in the deep South where the powder post beetles run rampant, it would concern me if there was some sign of infestation in the offending beam.  Spraying all the wood in the frame with a borate solution should prevent any future infestation.  Pretty cheap to do and would be good insurance in case that beam has been infested.  You really cannot tell if it has been until the larvae grow to adults and bore their way out.  That is when you see the holes and the frass.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Brad_bb

Let me ask this question of the more knowledgible.  Are the beetle larvae already in the wood when the tree is standing?  Or do the beetles lay their eggs on the wood after it has been sawn but still green?  Will larvae from one stick as the poster mentioned, migrate to other sticks?  I'm inclined to think no because the wood is already drying, and you need adult beetles to lay the eggs.  A stick "infested"  will have only eggs/larvae.  Do beetles only eat/bore green wood?  Are there any that will bore in dry wood?

I've had some green oak, and I had larvae boring while green, but as it dried, no more boring(after that first season).
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Ianab

There are different species that attack in different phases.

There are bugs that will attack a live tree, but of course this is bad for the tree, so they tend to develop defences against this. Like sap flowing out of wounds, or chemicals that discourage bugs. When a tree is stressed (drought etc) these defences can weaken and allow outbreaks of bugs to kill trees. But generally they are in a constant state of war, with healthy tree being able to fight them off. An old tree, that's naturally in decline is more prone to attack that may then finish it off.

Other bugs will attack green, but dead wood. The defences like the sap flow no longer works. So a freshly fallen log can be attacked by many bugs, depending on the species. Most of them need the moisture in the wood to survive, so if you can get the wood dry in time they die off.

There are a few bugs that can attack dry wood, like Powder Post beetles. These don't live in live or wet wood, but can attack dry wood. Some species are more susceptible than others.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

WDH

The bad thing about the powderpost beetles is that they only infest wood that is fully dry.  The adults lay the eggs on the dry lumber or post or beam, and the larvae hatch and burrow into the wood.  They enter through the pores, so they are worst on open grained ring porous hardwoods like oak, ash, hickory, pecan, etc.  Once they mature, they bore their way out, and that is when you see the holes and the sawdust (frass).  These newly emerged adults can lay more eggs on the same wood or they can infest nearby wood, or both, but it has to be dry wood.  Powderpost beetles will not attack green trees or green lumber.  They want it dry and that is what makes them such a nuisance.

There is a different species that attacks pine than attacks hardwood. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Brad_bb

Will such powder post beetles go after beams that have a finish like landmark or other oil finishes?  Should a borate be mixed in the finish?  Is borate safe for humans?
  How does temperature affect the powder post beetle?  Are they only active or laying eggs above a certain temp?  Here in Northern Illinois I haven't had an issue with them.  Maybe   because of cold winters?  Are they more of a southern problem?  I'll be moving down near Indy in a couple years so it would be good to know how to protect the frame I'm going to build there.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

WDH

A waxy or film finish will deter them and you should be ok.  Any standard finish should be good.  However, what is bad is when you have completed a piece, all nicely finished, and then the adult beetles that were larvae in the wood before it was finished bore out  :).

Borate is essentially borax, and it is totally safe for humans.  I don't know specifically how temperature affects powderpost beetles, but it is plenty hot enough for them in Indiana.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

D L Bahler

Brad, we run into them all the time in lumber here, and we are about 60 miles north of Indianapolis.

It is not uncommon to see old barn lumber riddled with ppb holes. However, I have never seen the timbers in these barns (frequently oak) damaged by beetles to the point of compromise.

Ironwood

Borax salt is just that a NATURAL salt mined in California I believe and it is just the concentration of it that makes the wood taste bad and inhospitable to the bugs. It must be a good saturating and soaking. Many of the trade names for Borate based wood care products like Timbor, and Boracare have fungicides I believe and "wetting" agents to keep it wet longer to aid in penetration. Most farm supplys stores like Agway can get striaght Borate salts in 80 lb bags. Some guys use old style antifreeze as a wetting agent, but obviously it IS a poison and should not necessarily be used this way.

Ironwood
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