Pith Question on cutting pine 10x10 columns

[Cypressstump]

I am usually cutting cypress plain sawn for the most part. As of late I've been cutting some dimensional pine 2x material. and will have more coming up in the future.

Here's what I got - a fine pine 20" cant with the pith dead center pretty much. I need to make some columns for my mill shed. Can I cut that cant into 4 10" posts, which would put pith on a corner of each column? Will the pith on the corner affect much regarding use for a column?

[beenthere]

Depends on if you want straight columns, or not? Likely the four might be similarly matched with a fair bow to them.

[Cypressstump]

Thanks, I was hoping to hear differently.... ;D I was wondering have bad it would tend to bow if the shed was braced well. May be better off cutting three more to do it right.

[beenthere]

Yep, it would be great if it were different.
The juvenile wood at and near the pith will shrink longitudinally and pull the post regardless of what your bracing might be. Boxing the pith will tend to keep the posts straight, but a pith that wanders away from center may still cause some warping of the post. Straight pith is best you can hope for.
To be safest, cut a post from each log.

[Cypressstump]

To be safest, cut a post from each log.

You sure are making it hard on me..... ;)  Thanks for the information, I appreciate it !

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

The pith on each corner makes GREAT bows for arrows.

For straight, STRONG columns......pith in the center.

[tyb525]

You won't be able to get exactly 10" cants from a 20" cant anyways ;)

[T Welsh]

Cypressstump, Box the heart if you want straight timbers. Tim

[Brucer]

Naw, make 4 9x9's out of each cant.

Split the cant into 4 10x10's just as you were planning to do. When (or if) one of the 10x10's is bowed, set it on the mill with the belly up and saw that side flat. Flip it 180 degrees and saw off the "ears". If necessary, rotate it 90 degrees and repeat in that direction.

[colinofthewoods]

I am with Brucer on this one,  especially if you are going to be using them in the next little while.  I've done it with doug fir before and not had a problem with it.

[beenthere]

Brucer and Colin
The OP is talking pine here, and I was assuming it is one of the Southern Pines.

[Ianab]

Yeah, Pine can really misbehave with that pith on one corner. Can you get away with 8x8 posts? Actually even an 8x10 should work. If the posts are totally free of heart they will be more stable, recover some 8" board, and throw that central 4x4 on the burn pile.

Ian

[WDH]

In southern pine, if you split it exactly down the pith with all the juvenile wood on one side and mature wood on the other side, it will most assuredly bow as beenthere described.

[Cypressstump]

Thanks Guys for the feeback and direction. I was not sure of the tendency of the pieces to bow if braced heavily and not too much of an exposed , non braced section.

I now have a nice pile of stickered 2x material ..... ;) I have a few more pines that I will get my columns out of. Just sucks having to poor boy them logs to and fro'.........I need some equipment !

[Cutting Edge]

Not to speak out of place but I wondered:

Split the cant into 4 10x10's just as you were planning to do. When (or if) one of the 10x10's is bowed, set it on the mill with the belly up and saw that side flat. Flip it 180 degrees and saw off the "ears". If necessary, rotate it 90 degrees and repeat in that direction.

Would it help a person if they took, say, 4 posts, stacked them all with the pith outwards (stickered hor. and vert.), and used banding or straps every so often and left to dry....would that help keep the bow to a minimum??  Then do as Brucer suggested and trim the posts.....Or would it just "move" once released/installed and over time end up as a rainbow anyhow??

[Jim_Rogers]

We often discuss "boxed heart" timbers in the timber framing section.

Here is a link to a post I did some 9 years ago, with pictures showing what happened to some timbers I had cut boxed heart and some not.....

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,4247.0.html

Jim Rogers

[Magicman]

Yup, just because you "box the heart" there is still no guarantee that the cant/column will remain straight.  Much still depends upon the load that the tree was carrying.  How the limbs were distributed.  Levelness of the terrain.  It's water source and feeder roots.  Closeness of neighboring trees.

[WDH]

Would it help a person if they took, say, 4 posts, stacked them all with the pith outwards (stickered hor. and vert.), and used banding or straps every so often and left to dry....would that help keep the bow to a minimum??  Then do as Brucer suggested and trim the posts.....Or would it just "move" once released/installed and over time end up as a rainbow anyhow??

The longitudinal shrinkage of the juvenile wood and the lack of it by the mature wood occurs even if you have tons of weight or banding as it is internal to the wood.  I suspect that the bow will result anyway with the woods that exhibit the most longitudinal (along the length, not the width) shrinkage in the juvenile wood like in southern pine.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

QUOTE FROM WDH

The longitudinal shrinkage of the juvenile wood and the lack of it by the mature wood occurs even if you have tons of weight or banding as it is internal to the wood.  I suspect that the bow will result anyway with the woods that exhibit the most longitudinal (along the length, not the width) shrinkage in the juvenile wood like in southern pine.
[/quote]

say_what

[WDH]

I guess I should have said that wood that I have cut shrinks and moves  .

[Cutting Edge]

QUOTE FROM WDH

The longitudinal shrinkage of the juvenile wood and the lack of it by the mature wood occurs even if you have tons of weight or banding as it is internal to the wood.  I suspect that the bow will result anyway with the woods that exhibit the most longitudinal (along the length, not the width) shrinkage in the juvenile wood like in southern pine.

say_what
[/quote]

Dave, glad I wasn't the only one.  I thought it was 'cause I'm to close to the Mason-Dixon, or no grits in my diet, etc.  I think it means IF you try it, BAD things will happen...but some parts are still fuzzy...              :P   pc_smiley stupid_smiley

I guess I should have said that wood that I have cut shrinks and moves  .

WDH, Thanks for the chuckle and the advice

[WDH]

I guess that longitudinal shrinkage of the juvenile wood must be a Southern thing  :D.

I do know that juvenile wood tastes better with grits  .

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I guess that longitudinal shrinkage of the juvenile wood must be a Southern thing  :D.

I do know that juvenile wood tastes better with grits  .

Man, I try to learn all the terms and words and definitions WDH uses in my everyday dealings with my customers. They just shake their head and walk away like there's something wrong with me.  smiley_nananana

[WDH]

Well, you are just trying to make it all too complicated.  The customer should know that it is simply because the angle of the cellulose chains in the S2 layer of the cell walls of the longitudinal tracheids in the juvenile wood are at more of an angle than those of the mature longitudinal tracheids.  Plus, the cell walls, including the S1, the S2, and the S3 layers are not as thick in the juvenile wood.  They also contain a bit more hemi-cellulose and lignin.  However, the bordered pits in both types of tracheids function the same, so there is some cause for hope.

This is all true.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Well, you are just trying to make it all too complicated.  The customer should know that it is simply because the angle of the cellulose chains in the S2 layer of the cell walls of the longitudinal tracheids in the juvenile wood are at more of an angle than those of the mature longitudinal tracheids.  Plus, the cell walls, including the S1, the S2, and the S3 layers are not as thick in the juvenile wood.  They also contain a bit more hemi-cellulose and lignin.  However, the bordered pits in both types of tracheids function the same, so there is some cause for hope.

This is all true.

And this is EXACTLY what I told him but he still insist the wood will split if it is not kiln dried. Geeeeeeee, some customers just don't get it.