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Author Topic: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest  (Read 4694 times)

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Offline asca65290

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Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« on: June 10, 2012, 09:30:06 pm »
I just got around to uploading some pictures taken during a selective harvest of Black Walnut and a couple Cherry trees last year at our land in west-central Illinois.  Prices for Black Walnut were at record levels at that time and have gone up even higher since then.  Many of these logs were veneer quality.  The main property where most of the trees were cut had not been harvested in recent history since my family owned the land (40+ years).

There's not enough discussion on this site about the happenings in the midwest forest industry, so I thought I would contribute my share.  Hope you enjoy!

http://www.teraprom.com/forest-products/2011-timber-harvest

Offline Kemper

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 09:53:23 am »
We cut a few a few walnut tress on our last job. Some brought over $4 a bd foot, the biggest which was 34 feet long & 18" inches on the small end. This was in western KY.

Offline Jamie_C

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 11:33:15 am »
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.

Offline DRB

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 01:07:36 pm »
Some nice trees there and nice to see only the trees that were mature being taken.  Those tops will make nice firewood.  My parents sold 4 walnut trees a couple years ago and we made the tops into firewood came to about 3 cords as they had big limbs. Some really pretty firewood burned well when dry maybe not as nice as oak but well enough. Cherry is good firewood as well.     

Offline saltydog

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 04:16:17 pm »
Anyone notice the barberchair and stump pull on some stumps?someone needs a good sawyer.
Proud to be a self employed logger.just me my Treefarmer forwader Ford f600 truck 2186 Jonsereds 385 and 390 husky and several 372s a couple 2171s one 2156  one stihl 066  Hudson bandmill Farquhar 56"cat powered mill.and five kids one wife.

Offline Jamie_C

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 04:18:41 pm »
Anyone notice the barberchair and stump pull on some stumps?someone needs a good sawyer.

Missing some safety equipment as well ....

Offline Dodgy Loner

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 05:20:12 pm »
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.

I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.
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Offline Autocar

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 07:21:19 pm »
Nothing like cutting nice walnuts  :D see theres plenty of sap wood here in Ohio they scale only the dark wood so sap wood kills me ! Growing on wet bottom ground they grow fast so thats part of a walnut the sap wood  ;D But like other fellows have said learn how to swing the heart out and you cut flat clean stumps, pulled wood like that is a no no also with veneer dealers. But still some nice logs thanks for scharing Bill
Bill

Offline Ironwood

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 07:09:10 am »
Nice links and great photos (former Terain Analyst for the Army lots of hours studying aerial pics of Russia), thanks for sharing.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Offline Jamie_C

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 07:44:12 am »
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.

I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.

On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.

Offline Dodgy Loner

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 05:03:39 pm »
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.

I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.

On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.

From the website:
Quote
This one needed to be winched across the creek.

I took that to mean that they used a winch to pull the tree across the creek, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder itself. But in any case, it definitely sounds like the BMPs in my area are much less restrictive than in your area.
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.

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Offline craigc

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 09:13:20 pm »
I speak for all of us in Illinois when i say we Plead the Fifth!  My questions is; Where are your walnut markets because as far as i know they are in the toliet, not going up.
If politicians are so smart,  Why do they do such dumb things?

Offline asca65290

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 10:30:57 pm »
Wow ... logging that close to a brook that wide plus dragging a tree across the brook with the skidder would likely land you in front of a judge around here and be facing some lovely fines.

I can't speak for every state since since their laws are all different, but in the southeastern United States, you don't commit offense unless you actually damage the water quality. BMPs (Best Management Practices) in my region allow for the harvest of up to 50% of the crown cover within an SMZ (Streamside Management Zone). Skidding is allowed across SMZs, but BMPs require that you cross in as few locations as possible, avoid blocking the stream flow during skidding, and clean out the crossing when it is retired. It doesn't appear that anything asca65290 did would necessarily violate any BMPs for our area, nor does it appear that it should cause any degradation of water quality, provided that due diligence was used in the harvesting process. Nova Scotia must have very restrictive logging regulations.

On a brook that size we would have a 20m SMZ (no machines within 20m of bank and i believe 20sqm/ha of basal area must be maintained). For us to even consider crossing a brook with a machine you need to have permits from Dept. of Environment, proper bridges, tarps to put under the bridges, logs to enclose the middle of the bridges and to put alongside the bridges. If you want to skid anything across a brook it would be much easier to just shoot yourself and get it over with. There is basically a 0 tolerance for any streambed disturbance of any kind let alone potential skidding damage to the stream banks.

From the website:
Quote
This one needed to be winched across the creek.

I took that to mean that they used a winch to pull the tree across the creek, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder itself. But in any case, it definitely sounds like the BMPs in my area are much less restrictive than in your area.

Your interpretation is correct.  It was winched across the creek with the skidder in a stationary position, rather than crossing the creek with the skidder to get the log which would have caused much more damage.

Offline asca65290

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 10:33:17 pm »
I speak for all of us in Illinois when i say we Plead the Fifth!  My questions is; Where are your walnut markets because as far as i know they are in the toliet, not going up.

I have a friend who is a logger and he has been selling black walnut like hotcakes up through March of this year for very good prices.  Haven't talked to him in the last couple of months so I'm not sure how it is at this very minute.  And, where is the market?  China.

Offline craigc

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 11:01:38 pm »
You may want to talk to your friend I don't think he would be so upbeat.  Just have to hope it comes back this fall.
If politicians are so smart,  Why do they do such dumb things?

Offline asca65290

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2012, 04:37:26 pm »
You may want to talk to your friend I don't think he would be so upbeat.  Just have to hope it comes back this fall.

I did just that.  He said the market for Black Walnut sawlogs had deteriorated but the market remained strong for veneer quality logs.  I don't have any logs to sell at the moment anyway.

Offline woodtroll

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2012, 12:56:22 am »
When I left ILL the BMP's were suggestions. They were based on western state templates. As a professional I took it on my self to promote wise management. A rule written in one area may not be applicable in another, or practical. it is our responsibility to manage our private lands well.

it was nice to see the big walnuts and cherry. I have not seen spur cuts since I left.

Offline asca65290

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 10:36:03 am »
When I left ILL the BMP's were suggestions. They were based on western state templates. As a professional I took it on my self to promote wise management. A rule written in one area may not be applicable in another, or practical. it is our responsibility to manage our private lands well.

it was nice to see the big walnuts and cherry. I have not seen spur cuts since I left.

I'm going to show my ignorance here a little.  Can someone please explain the purpose of a spur cut?  I've always been curious about why loggers do this.

Offline OneWithWood

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2012, 12:52:02 pm »
Wow!  :o  If those are veneer logs I am a rich man  8)  ::)
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Offline westyswoods

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Re: Illinois Black Walnut Veneer Log Harvest
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2012, 02:08:38 pm »
Got to agree with previous post. If you find someone who pays veneer prices for those post it here. I would like to sell some.
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