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Author Topic: Firewood processor build  (Read 7343 times)

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Offline muddstopper

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Firewood processor build
« on: June 08, 2012, 05:26:56 pm »
I am in the process of building my own firewood processor. I Will be using a Izusu 58hp diesel engine, to pull three seperate pumps. A 28gpm 2stage for the 5in cylinder, a 2gpm ( i also have a 4gpm if the 2gpm pump proves to be to slow),vickers vane for the saw cylinder, conveyor and holddown bar, and a 20gpm gear pump for the saw motor. The saw motor is a Rexroth that turns 3150rpms at 18.5gpm and 2300psi. This motor is actually rated a lot higher than those numbers, but those are the numbers I know will work with this motor. This should give me about 25hp of cutting power. I am planning on using a 25in, .404 bar and chain to buck the wood with.

 Right now I just have a bunch of stuff laying around to build this machine with, nothing started. I dont want to do a bunch of fabricating until I have all the parts for the saw in hand and know that my pump and motor combination is going to work. My problem is trying to find a sprocket to fit the 7/8in. dia, keyed shaft of the saw motor. I have called several suppliers of harvester parts and cant seem to find someone who can tell me ( or who is willing to tell me)what sprocket I need. I know that there are sprockets available that take a taper lock type of bushing, but nobody at any of the suppliers seem to know what I am talking about. Could be that I am not asking for the right thing or not calling it by its proper name. I could use a little help finding a sprocket I can use. From some of you that have built your own processors, where did you get your saw parts. I know Danzco and several others sell ready to use saw assemblies, but that is not what I am looking for.

Offline Clam77

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 08:46:27 pm »
Welcome to the forum Muddstopper!!

Bailey's has what I believe you are looking for.....   

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=9TRBL1+14&catID=

This is a keyless version of what you're looking for and it's a little pricey but... looks like it'll do the trick and has replaceable parts on it- always a good thing.   ;)
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 09:41:23 pm »
Thanks for the welcome. Actually, I have been around for sometime, just havent had much to say, I mostly just read.

The sprocket you linked to is for a 3/4pitch chain, I am wanting to use a .404. I talked to Bailey's today and didnt have any success locating a similar sprocket for the .404 size chain. Could of been it was closeing time and I wasnt talking to the right person. I am not dead set on the .404 chain size if someone wants to talk me out of using it. It just seems that most of the commercial built machines use the smaller size instead of the 3/4.  I have never used a chain bigger than 3/8 on a chainsaw, so I am not sure what size chain I should be using on a processor.

Offline NWP

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:00:38 pm »
My Blockbuster uses a taper type flange that clamps on the motor shaft.  That part is made by Martin.  The sprockets I always order from Blockbuster.  I'm not sure on the shaft diameter.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1994 Duratech HD8, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 1990 Peterbilt 378 w/ Hood 7000 loader, 2001 Chevrolet, 2005 Chevrolet, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 08:01:00 am »
Does your blockbuster use a .404 chain or the 3/4?

Offline blackfoot griz

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 10:48:47 am »
muddstopper

I built a processor and my saw motor has a 3/4 shaft. I used a Martin 3/4" QD bushing to attach my sprocket to the shaft. Super easy to use--make sure the sprocket is lined up with the groove on she saw bar and tighten down. I have run about 35 cords through my processor and haven't had to touch it since I installed it.
I would guess that a Martin 7/8 QD bushing would be the ticket for your application. 

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2012, 12:17:16 pm »
Thanks Blackfoot. I followed your's and GF's builds of your processors. they look really good and seem to do the job. While my fabrication skills might not be quite as good as you two, I hope to build something similar.

I am curious as to what speed, (rpm and fpm),you are running your saw chain. The motor I am using I believe is quite larger than the one you chose. I will be supplying 1.4cuin of oil @ 2300psi to turn my motor 3150 rpms. Thats right at 25hp. My motor is capable of a lot more than that and should result in fast cut times, but I am already worried about to much power and chain breakage, so I might have to tone it down even more.

Offline blackfoot griz

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 02:05:33 pm »
Muddstopper,
GF's machine is a thing of beauty....mine...not so much but it does work. A careful examination would reveal that there was a lot of trial and error....more error. But so far so good.
I can't tell you exactly what RPM or the GPM my saw uses.  I run a 38 hp kohler @ 2400 rmp and 3 pumps. The first is a Parker 2 section. Eack section is 15 GPM @ 1500 psi. The 3rd pump is a 28 gpm 2 stage for the splitter.

One section runs my saw,clamp and saw cylinder.
The second section runs the live deck, feed trough and I peel a little of this circuit to run the conveyor (I installed a flow control on the conveyor side.

My saw circuit (clamp, saw motor and saw cylinder) run off one lever.  Advance the log to the log stop, pull the lever, the clamp comes down, the saw motor starts and the saw cylinder starts. I have a flow control  to control the flow to the saw cylinder--I can speed up the cut speed or even stop the cylinder but the saw motor and chain running. This works well because I can slow the cut if I need to wait for the splitter to return home, if a cut is really knotty etc.

You have a lot more HP to use. Regarding your concern about chain breakage, it's just my opinion that the key is being able to control the saw cylinder extension time.  Oregon has info on their website with the ratings on their harvestor chain. 

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 02:07:18 pm »
Here is my first try at posting a few pics. so far it hasnt been as easy as it is at other forums.

Pictures are of the boom I just added to my splitter

 

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 02:46:51 pm »
Griz, I was busy trying to figure out how to get pic's to post when you replied.

I read about your saw, clamp combo valve. I am still trying to figure out what that thing is called so I can order one. In the mean time, I am going to try something a little different. One of the harvester companies recommends to use no more than 50-70lbs of down force on the chain bar to push it thru the log as it cuts. Since I am doing this thing on a very tight budget and have more time than money. I am planning on using a small cylinder and springs to hold pressure on the bar. I can get 2-25lb springs for about 5bucks apiece, mount the saw on a hindge connected to the cylinder with the springs. As I retract the cylinder, the springs will prohibit me from applying more than 50lbs of force to the sawbar. If i find I need more force, I just add another spring. Of course, this is just my theory and may or maynot work. I havent seen another one made to work like this, so we'll see. If it doesnt work, then I guess I will look for a valve like you are using.

I will be using seperate pumps for each function, I have a assortment of sizes laying around so my first trial and errors wont cost a whole lot. The only pump I plan on purchaseing to start with is the 28gpm 2stage pump for the splitter. I havent made up my mine yet about the autocycle valve for the splitter ram. I have read where a lot of people seem to have failures with this setup. I am never in such a hurry where I feel maximum production is essential so I will probably just op for a regular valve with detent on the retrac side.

I am also considering letting the splitting ram advance my log feeder while it splits. I was reading somewhere where that person was attemping to do so with his build. I cant remember where I was reading a bout it, so I dont know if he ever got this system to work. It seems simple enough and certainly would be cheaper than using a chain driven conveyor, if it worked.

Another pic of splitter


 

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 03:00:12 pm »
valve bank with wobble sticks salvaged from ditch witch 

 

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 09:07:53 pm »
Just had a surprise development with my new log lift boom in the above picture. A buddy of mine came by and I had to show off the boom. His reply, it'll never hold. All I plan to pick up with it is a stick of fire wood, one or two hundred lbs so I said it will hold. Since the hydraulics arent hooked up, I decided to swing my weight on the boom, 230lbs. well, it broke. I used a front spindle off a frontwheel drive car to bolt the boom to. I wanted it to be able to swing from side to side. The spindle just bolts on with three 1/2 in bolts. Since I couldnt get bolts in because of the way the traier tongue is made, I tack welded the spindle to the trailer tongue. I did this last winter when I was building the splitter. I never got around to finish welding it up and the tack weld is what broke. Looks like I will be removing the boom and doing a little touchup welding before this thing is put into service. Usually, I overbuild everything, and once welded properly, I still dont think I will have any problems with the boom. Still, its better to find out now than to have had a big stick of wood swinging that could have dropped on somebody. I guess know-it-all and I-told-you-so buddies do come in handy sometimes. LOL

Offline cp881

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 06:26:53 am »
Blackfoot , did your sprocket and bushing come together? if not what was the bore size of the sprocket to fit over the bushing and where did you get it. I also have a saw motor with a 3/4 shaft but I'm only finding sprockets with a 20mm bore or a 25mm bore (oregon)

Offline blackfoot griz

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 12:22:32 pm »
cp881

I got my saw motor, sprocket and bushing from CRD metalworks. At the time, I was in a hurry to get the machine done. My dad was terminally ill and he really wanted to see the machine work. I wanted to get saw parts that were proven.
 The Martin bushing has a 3/4" id.  The 13 tooth sprocket slides over the OD of the bushing. You simply line up the sprocket with the groove on the saw bar and tighten down small bolts.  This is the best pic I have on hand.

 

Offline cp881

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 03:39:04 pm »
Thanks, they are close by so I will go see them



Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2012, 08:46:13 pm »
I have pretty much ran into the samething as cp881 when it comes to the sprocket. The bores for the 404 sprockets all seem to be metric. I am not sure, those metric sprockets will accept a qd type bushing. Anyway, it will probably be quicker and just as cheap to call CRD and get the sprocket I need. I am pretty sure the sprocket bore will be the same whether I use a 3/4 or 7/8 qd bushing.
I have some other questions I need to ask them anyways.

Griz, any chance you can remember the name of what that saw/clamp/bar valve is called.

Offline blackfoot griz

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2012, 10:49:29 pm »
I have an extra 25mm ID Oregon sprocket for a .404 chain if anybody needs one...part of the learning curve!
Martin QD bushings are available for a whole host of applications.  In my case, I just wanted to get my processor functional.

Mudstopper, I bought the manifold from a hysraulic shop in Missoula, MT. Not sure exactly what it is. I will say that once I added a flow control valve on the saw cylinder, this combination works great.  I can control the cut speed very easily.  It is dialed in enough that I can hear and vary the engine RPM as the machine is cutting and splitting at the same time.

On the circuit, there is one control valve. .  Pull the lever, the clamp comes down applying pressure to the lgt, the saw motor fires up and the saw cylinder extends--which I can easily control.  Once the cut is made, if I push the lever to the neutral psoition everything stops...push it forward the  clamp comes up the saw stops and retracts.

 

The lines coming at the bottom are the pressure/return lines. From there dual lines go to the clamp, saw motor and cylinder. Note, there is a brass colored flow control valve...since this picture was taken, it has been moved next to the control valves on the operator station.

Not sure if this helps?

Offline NWP

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 08:20:23 am »
My Blockbuster uses .404 18h Oregon chain
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1994 Duratech HD8, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 1990 Peterbilt 378 w/ Hood 7000 loader, 2001 Chevrolet, 2005 Chevrolet, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

Offline muddstopper

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 12:51:56 pm »
My processor plans seem to keep running into road blocks. I was ready last week to start buying metal to start the build with and then, Wham!, my well pump went out. Got to have water and the wife didnt think to highly of using a bucket to tote water from the spring. I told her she could carry it on the back of the gator, but all I got was a evil stare.  Oh well.

I broke the boom on my splitter  again, and again. First the brake rotor I was using as a base didnt take to kindly to all the heat from the welding so it broke under a 350lb load. I regrouped and made a new base out of a piece of 1/2inch plate, but then the bearings pulled out of the car hub, again letting the boom fall. So its back to the drawing board. While this seems to have nothing to do with the processor build, it actually does. I fully intend to build some kind of knuckle boom to load the processor with. My boom on the splitter is sort of just some experimentations of just how much strenght I need to lift log length wood. I can buy a small used prentice 110 for a couple of grand, but its just to big and heavy to mount on a wood processor, unless of course you want something really high output and plan on selling lots of fire wood. I want something I can mount on the back of a ton truck, (the 110 is also to big for that), the same truck I would use to tow the processor with if I decided to go someplace other than my home, to process some firewood. Not something I plan on doing a lot of, but the possiblilty is there. Anyways, I will be rebuilding the boom using a better, heavier, truck type spindle and hub and once I know it will handle a decent firelog, I will add a hydraulic swing to it and call it done.

Offline blackfoot griz

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Re: Firewood processor build
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 09:43:20 pm »
Muddstopper...sometimes it seems like it never ends!

Keep at it. I got so frustrated at one point building mine that I yanked up to my hayshed ready to scrap the whole thing.

But, looking back, I'm really glad I didn't quit.  This afternoon, a logger buddy of mine stopped by and he took a run at running my machine. Once he got the hang of it, it you couldn't smack the smile off his face.  I had a load of logs on the live deck and he went to town. It took him about 15 minutes to fill up a full sized pickup box. If he didn't have some other place he had to be, he might still be up there!

You will get there!