Dreaming?

[grweldon]

I'm finding that the more I learn about post and beam construction, the more I want to build a large structure.  I could use the space of a multi-story 30 x 40 barn, but I'm probably thinking dreaming seeing as I'm going to be working by myself with basically no lift or crane.

What would be the best way to design a smaller structure that could be expanded over time?  What about building two structures next to each other, then joining the frames between them somehow?  I'm just thinking out loud and hope that some of you will join me...

[Jim_Rogers]

There are at least two different ways I know of to add on to an existing frame.

The first thing to do is to just stand up the second frame next to the first one.

You would just trim back any roof overhang on the gable end and then stand up your second frame against the first frame and put in some connecting tenons called "free tenons".

Like this:



The other thing you can do, is plan ahead and put in mortises for future tenon in the first frame before you erect it. Then later on you cut your second frame and when you raise that frame you have the connecting mortises in the first frame already done.

At times students would accidently cut pockets on the wrong side of posts. Or on both sides of a gable rafter for purlins.
One teacher would say, "that's for the future addition".....

I can be done but it has to be planned on and laid out correctly up front. If you can or don't then you'll be cutting mortises in standing timbers. Which can be done it's just not that easy to do.

Jim Rogers

[jander3]

You would be surprised at what one guy can do if they they think things though and approach the project with care:

http://peelinglogs.blogspot.com/2009/09/rigging-ridge-pole.html

Currently my brother Petey is working on building a derick crane that will allow one or two guys to assemble his place. If you will be working alone, gotta learn to rig.  I base many rigging operations off the army rigging manual, which you can find at the following link:

http://www.petrospec-technologies.com/Herkommer/knots/FM5-125.pdf

[Brad_bb]

As jander says, it's funny how you come up with ways to do things yourself.  On the other hand, if you need a crane, you just hire one for one day.  In case you don't know, you hire the crane that comes with the operator, and it's an hourly cost, or whatever was agreed upon. 

I'm not sure if your reason for wanting to do one frame and then add on is money, or the scale of the work doing it all at once?  I definitely agree with Jim, design the whole thing up front to include the addition.  Layout your initial building  with the joinery for the addition. 

Depending on how much space you need, you could plan for a main box frame, and plan lean-to add on additions, or extend the building on one end, just adding bents.

[grweldon]

As jander says, it's funny how you come up with ways to do things yourself.  On the other hand, if you need a crane, you just hire one for one day.  In case you don't know, you hire the crane that comes with the operator, and it's an hourly cost, or whatever was agreed upon. 

Brad, I live about 350 feet off a main road with the only access being a twisty, hilly, 10 foot wide dirt/clay/mud path with trees on all sides, an upward sloping hill on the right and a downward sloping hill on the left.  I'd have to build a new road to get a concrete truck or a crane in.  It's not a matter of not wanting, it's a matter of not being able without throwing a bunch or resources at it!

Also Brad, the reason for not wanting to do everything at once, I'm going to be milling my own timbers from trees on my property.  I'd like to have some storage as soon as possible for my mill and for drying lumber.  A larger structure requires more wood, which takes longer to mill, dry, and cut joinery.  I figured that possibly doing a building in thirds would be a way accomodate.  I thought I would ask as a reality check.  Plus, to be honest, I'm a bit intimidated with the whole process and to me, smaller is better!  I'd build a 12 x 12 if that was all the storage I need!   ;)

Thank you all for Brad, Jander and Jim for your suggestions.  Subconsciencely I was hoping you would all tell me my plans are too big for a first time building and I couldn't possibly do it alone!

[Brad_bb]

grweldon,
Learning proper technique for layout and cutting is one key to alleviating your intimidation.  Having patience and tenacity(stick-to-it-ness) is the other requirement.  Cutting your frame will take the longest time.  So focus on the work that will take.  Raising can take a day or two.  Most people can come up with a handful of helpers on raising day. 
   You do know that you can build with green timbers?  What species would you be using?  Finding an experienced timber framer to work with you would help you alot to teach you and direct the layout and cutting.
Brad

[grweldon]

I do understand that I can build with green timbers and green wood in general, but I won't just be milling posts, siding and decking for the barn.  I will also be doing the siding and flooring for a house and much wood for interior use that will have to be kiln-dried after air drying.  Much of what I will be milling is pine.  I haven't yet identified the species of pine I have on my property, I will certainly do that before I start cutting.

I'm leaning toward the lean-to type addition that Jim suggested.  I was pretty much thinking that it would be the most practical, but I really had my heart set on a gambrel roof design.  I realize it could be done with lean-to additions but if I go that way I won't choose a gambrel.  I'm thinking now a tall (2 to 2 1/2 story) center 1/3 section with two one or one and a half story lean-to's on either side.  Probably each 12' wide which makes each section more manageable.  If I wanted to work real hard, I could even have concrete slabs for the lean-to additions!

Oh, and as far as cutting the wood frame, once I have the first third up, I will have a place out of the sun that I can set up to work comfortably on the other 2/3's of the frame! 

[Cypressstump]

You would be surprised as to where you can get a boomtruck into. They can be rented with or without an operator. I have had them in and out of some very precarious situations in very rugged mountianous areas before. As mentioned, raising can be one of the quickest aspects.

There was an article I think on this site where a guy built his lower building elevation pretty much to completion, then built his upper elevation adjacent to lower structure. Came in with a crane and set the upper section in no time.... all his stuff fit too !   8)

[Brad_bb]

Getting out of the sun is a good thing.  There are alternatives though.  I recently discovered a fabric that the landscape place has, that they use overhead, over a metal frame.  The fabric is black, and lets some light through, but gives you good shade.  It's a mesh so it doesn't trap heat or humidity.  It's expensive as far as fabric goes, but a more cost effective alternative than many other things like a tent, and performs far better giving light and allowing air to flow through.  Something I'm keeping in mind for when i need it.

[Thehardway]

GR,

I started small and plan to add on.  I had a terrain situation similar to yours, I don't think a west virginia mobile home crew could get something of any size on my site.  My driveway is 1000' of mud/clay/gravel with steep slope from the main gravel road down into a creek bottom and then a steep rise back up to the homesite.  Conctete trucks can only come in when it is dry and have to back the whole way in. I did my raising with a 25' tall home-built lifting tower and a chainfall. 

  
 

 


The tower was relocated and cabled off for each lift. A gin pole is also an option for raising if you can't get equipment on site and must raise with a limited crew on a limited budget.  I love my chainfall and tower as it is safe, gives a lot of control and can be worked by one man without sweating.  It is a lot of work to set up though.   

  
 One other tool I found handy is a pipe installers crane.  They are wheeled and have a cable winch on an adjustable mast with short boom.  They will lift bents and beams fairly easily if the center of gravity is kept close to the mast.


Then the issue of getting 8'W X 20'L X 8" thick SIP panels on the 12/12 pitch roof became a reality.  They were awkward due to size and weighed about 900lb ea.  I had 12 of them to put up.  The first two I did with 2  come-alongs, and ratchet straps winching them into place. This was slow and dangerous.  I decided to get a 40' 4wd boom style manlift.  Although it was not certified to lift the weight, I found that attaching a Large clevis to the boom stick (NOT THE BASKET!) it would easily lift the panels and I could easily maneuver it around the house if I was careful about the tilt issues.  It was also handy for putting the roof tin on and siding the gable ends.  I did a 1 month rental.  I think it set me back about $1500 but was well worth the money.  I also trimmed some trees, installed windows, painted and everything else I needed to do up high while I had it.


Whatever you do, don't get in a hurry or work when you are too tired.  Things can get dangerous and go bad pretty quick when dealing with this kind of weight.  One thing to get smacked with a 2x. Its entirely another to have a 2500# bent crush you.