Breathing in hardwood sawdust

[WoodenHead]

Today I tried milling my first hardwood log.  It went well.  We've been going at pine and cedar for a while now, but I have an order for some white ash.  The dust of the ash is a lot finer and that got me wondering if it is harmful to breath in the sawdust.  I believe I read somewhere that you should wear some personal protective equipment (face mask) when sawing oak because of the acid contained in the wood.

I was wondering what do you folks do with oak.  Do you wear a mask?  Do I need wear a mask for the white ash? 

[Magicman]

I do not saw without wearing a mask.....Period.


 
Glasses, ear plugs, mask, gloves, steel toe boots.

[Tree Feller]

Sawdust, all sawdust, has been labeled a carcinogen...breathing it can give you cancer. In addition, many people have or develop a sensitivity to certain woods, Aromatic Cedar being a popular one. Walnut is another that seems to bother some people a lot.

The level of PPE you wear is purely a personal decision. I don't wear a dust mask because I'm gonna die from something eventually. I really doubt that it will be caused by sawdust inhalation.

Others will tell you that those paper dust masks are useless in keeping the micron-sized dust particles out of your lungs. They advocate a positive-pressure face mask.

You will have to decide for yourself but erring on the side of caution will probably give you more peace-of-mind if not cleaner lungs.   ;)

[Magicman]

This is the mask that I use:  LINK  The N95 denotes the filtration micron size.  It has the necessary exhalation valve which prevents moisture buildup.  Different Google searches may find a better price  ???

[captain_crunch]

M_M
Only thought you wore mask when presenting bill :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Sorry could not help myself  :-\ :-\

[WoodenHead]

I'm glad I asked the question.  Thanks for the responses and for the link. 

Ear plugs, glasses, steel-toed boots are standard for me, but I've never had much success with masks for other situations (never seemed to seal properly).  I'll give the 3M mask a try. 

Although we all will go one way or the other, I'd prefer to go without suffering.  ;)  Hopefully this thread is useful for others as well.

[Chuck White]

You just need to realize that breathing in sawdust is breathing in a solid!

It is not natural.

I don't wear a dust mask, but if sawdust and wind are a problem on a certain saw job, I just get the saw started and let it go on it's own!

[Woodsrover]

Good question and an interesting subject.  I'm in the autobody business an am pretty well versed on personal protection, especially respiratory protection, yet I don't wear a mask when I'm sawing either.  Gloves and hearing protection, but no mask.  Funny that.

The 8511 mask that MM wears is very good and what we use on the floor for any sanding tasks.  It's more than good enough for sawdust.  In the past couple of months I've cut 4000+bf of white pine and just this week 1000+bf of red and pin oak.  Neither bothered me and most of the time the wind was in my favor, but sometimes it wasn't.  With this post I'll grab a few of these masks and keep them handy.  Thanks for the reminder to work safe!

[grweldon]

I would think a cheap $40 respirator would be better than most things.  I wear one when I'm cutting wood in the shop, but I work with many exotics and rosewoods...

[Magicman]

For me, it would be rather cumbersome when sawing.

[westyswoods]

Anecdotally, several years ago a young man who was working with a local tree care company delivered a load of black walnut chips. He had been chipping and pulling all day.

I am not sure what the toxins in BW are but this kid was one sorry looking kid. He should have been in the ER, tough young man. Saw him a week later and he had some severe respiratory difficulty that night. No known long term implications .

[Al_Smith]

I don't know about running a mill but red oak through a table saw causes me fits .Sneeze ,sneeze ,sneeze .Eyes water something terrible nose plugs up .

Ash,white oak,hickory ,pine ,fir no problems .

[opticsguy]

No respirator, no cutting, that is my rule.  Health is the greatest gift you have and without it if can not do anything else, care your family or yourself or your dreams.

When you find out your are allergic to a specific species or find you are getting ill from the dust, it is too late.

[Al_Smith]

Probabley for some .In my case having worked around industrial pollution and agriculteral dusts most of my life I just developed allergies .Fact a majority of folks in this area of the country have sinus problems so short of moving to Arizona or the northern slope of Alaska there is no option but to grin and bear it .

In a desert I'd melt and on the north slope I'd freeze so I'm just stuck here in middle ground . --sneezing --:D

[Magicman]

When we were created we were given a brain and the ability to think, defend ourselves, and to take whatever steps are necessary to preserve our health.  If you see a train coming, you step off of the tracks.  Airborne dust which includes sawdust is simply a slow moving train.

[Al_Smith]

Oh don't get me wrong because I fully agree with you .I forget what they call injested  wood fiber ,brown lung maybe ?Black lung was what killed the coal miners and silicoses the sand blasters and quarry workers .

My only point in mentioning allergies is due to the fact that in areas like the "Ohio valley " you live with conditions that promote problems unless you live in a bubble .People in fact who never worked in industrial or agriculutural  dust and never had any bad habits such as smoking are affected .

What works best for me if I have a lot to cut is turn the table saw around with a fan to my back and blow the saw dust outside because mask or not my eyes will water from the oak dust .Cutting ,felling with a chainsaw no problems at all ,just saw dust .

[Texas Ranger]

Over the 50 years or so I have worked wood, it is in the last ten that I noticed a reaction to some, walnut and cedar, now there are more.  I wear a mask, and try to keep (try the key word) a clean shop.  I used a lot of mahogany in my door making days, and that stuff was deadly.  I still stir up a little dust from some hidden corner and can tell immediately that all is not well.

Wear a mask.

[Magicman]

Oh don't get me wrong because I fully agree with you. 

I was speaking to the thread in general Al, trying to point out that what goes in....does not come out.

We had a local cement/concrete contractor that died recently.  Over the years, he literally cemented his lungs.  He breathed in dust, moisture was there, so bingo.   :-\

[John S]

Magic,
Bought a box of 10 at Lowes today, just under $20 less 10% veterans discount.  More comfortable than my cartridge respirator.  Thanks.

[cutterboy]

I have a problem with cherry.....runny nose, sneeze, itchy eyes. A while back Magicman showed us a picture of that mask he uses in a post and I went out and bought one. I sawed up a wack of cherry this spring and no problems. The mask made all the difference. (Thank you Magic)

Hey Magic, how often do you change your mask?

[Indiana Robinson]

This is the mask that I use:  LINK  The N95 denotes the filtration micron size.  It has the necessary exhalation valve which prevents moisture buildup.  Different Google searches may find a better price  ???

I find that those mask with 2 bands seal to my bearded face a whole lot better than the one band ones. I also love the exhale valves.
I used to wear dust mask when scooping grain (retired now) since it was always full of molds and stuff. I just could not breath well doing that kind of work without the exhale valve. The valve gets a lot of the moisture out instead of it clogging the mask paper.

[Magicman]

Hey Magic, how often do you change your mask? 

Sometimes they just get dirty on the outside and really look bad, but most often the elastic will go bad.  Just guessing, but probably between 5-10Mbf.  I remove it and the glasses when loading and leveling logs, so it comes off often.

[bandmiller2]

Prehaps I should wear a mask but don't,I would say your nose will tell, if you must blow it often your sucking dust.I really only notice dust when cutting hardwoods that have partally dried out and/ or I'am feeding a big cut slowly.Do believe circular sawyers have less dust to worry about as it comes off the log in chunks.Probibly the wise use of a fan and air movement will greatly reduce your exposire. Frank C.

[Al_Smith]

I've got a couple -3 boxes full of 3M masks I bought at an auction of a cabinet shop selling out .Also a cartridge mask I use when spray painting .

[hackberry jake]

You guys just need to find you some freshly felled sycamore... No mask needed for that stuff  8)

[Tree Feller]

This is the mask that I use:  LINK  The N95 denotes the filtration micron size.

Actually, the N95 designation means that Niosh has certified the mask will remove 95% of airborne particulates (down to 0.3 microns in size) if it is fitted and worn correctly.

If there is not negative pressure felt when inhaling sharply, the fit is not correct. Beards will interfere with a correct fit.

The biggest problem with "dust masks" is the fit over the bridge of the nose. Even those masks with the aluminum bridge that can be bent to fit do not always seal correctly. If the mask has foam on the inside of the nose area, it gives a much better seal. The particle size that is most dangerous to breath, <1 micron, does not need much of an opening.

Now, that being said, any protection is better than none at all. As I wrote, wood dust is a "known" carcinogen. If you are concerned about it's possible health effects, then use whatever level of respiratory protection you think is necessary.  A Scott Air Pack connected to a cascade system might be just the thing for you.   :D

[Al_Smith]

Hah I've never found out what sycamore is good for . :D

[Al_Smith]

     A Scott Air Pack connected to a cascade system might be just the thing for you.   :D

Lawdy I haven't seen one of those things or an OBA in decades nor do I care to ever again .

However on some certain paints it takes a completely remote source of air to spray them safely and they are still skin absorbative and very dangerious to the health if not handled properly .They can get you 20 years after the fact .Many old time bodymen got Parkinsons from just plain being ignorant about exposuer .

I suspect many an old time mill hand suffered about the same from a life time of inhauling saw dust .Steel mill hands got a lung full of iron dust which certainly wasn't healthy .

[shenandoahsawmill]

I use the Trend airshield for all sawing jobs and long sleve shirts for walnut. The airshield beats a dust mask hands down for comfort and staying cool in hot  weather. It has the added benefit of having ear muffs, eye, face and head protection. Only drawback is inital cost but you can't put a cost on safety. Gary

[WildDog]

Now I know why I recently devoloped an allergy to Prawns after all these years, :( should of worn a respirator

Jokes aside, last month I bought 2 respirators for working in my shed and around chemicals, never too late to start and set an example for the kids.

[Ron Wenrich]

The worst for dust in a circle mill is black locust.  Very fine and very irritating.  I don't see any respirators or masks in circle mills, hardwood or softwood.  But, our dust isn't as fine.  I'm in a booth, so dust is kept to a minimum. 

[SAWMILL BUDDY]

Well I guess I'm as good as dead after working in concrete for 38 years and now milling mostly hard :D. Milling 2000 bf of oak today hope I dont foget to bring a dust mask :

[36 coupe]

Met a saywer I bought lumber from in a grocery store, asked him about buying some plank.He said he had to give up sawing, lungs were shot.He had a water powered mill.An old friend my age has to keep an inhaler at all times.He was a carpenter for most of his working years.He blames sheet rock dust.I have worn a mask when sharpening saws.If you blow your nose after sharpening a few saws you will see black on the hankerchief.Masks dont stop all dust.Doctor told me 10 years ago my lungs showed some scarring.Seems every job Ive worked on involved dust.

[grweldon]

It is true that masks don't stop all dust, mostly because of the poor seal.  Respirators, on the other hand, if they have a good seal, will stop 99.99% of the dust if using 5 micron filter cartridges.  Even 30 micron cartridges will stop 99.9% of the dust.  Dust masks similar to what Magicman uses are good, but I would expect (haven't read the specs or used one) are probably about 95% effective...

I will say that in the heat, respirators are no fun to wear unless you have one of the positive pressure masks that provide constant airflow to the outside...

[grweldon]

Well I guess I'm as good as dead after working in concrete for 38 years and now milling mostly hard :D. Milling 2000 bf of oak today hope I dont foget to bring a dust mask :

I don't know what position you have occupied in the concrete trade, but if you have been breathing concrete (or cement) dust on a regular basis for 38 years, you have severe lung damage and you might be as good as dead.  My suspicion is that you haven't been breathing dust on a regular basis.  It's nothing to poke fun at or make light of.  The threat is real and proven.

[Cutting Edge]

Breathing smoke from welding ranks right up there.  MIG welding aluminum inside a shop is suicide, even with decent air circulation.  We were not provided much protection because "its only known to cause lung issues and cancer in California".  They'd hand ya a $15 box fan and call it good.  The smoke from flux core wire and stick welding is a loaded gun also.  The dust from grinding and the fibers the discs contain is nothing to sneeze at.

...never too late to start and set an example for the kids.

Ditto.  Or anyone else for that matter....may make them think twice when doing their own tasks.

[MotorSeven]

Winter no problem, but in the summer, I just can't wear a mask because I overheat quickly. What does help is watering down the logs before sawing and every little bit helps.

[Magicman]

Whatever mask you choose, be sure that it has an exhalation valve to prevent moisture buildup which will completely clog a mask.

[campy]

For wet logs I find that the particles are very heavy and not so easy to inhale.
Dry/dead logs and especially spalted logs are of greater concern.

I use this mask when I sense danger:
http://www.dustbeegone.com/dustmask.html

That is a dustbeegone.

[grweldon]

I was sawing pecan yesterday and the dust was horrible... wet OR dry.  I cut some with the respirator and without.  Except for the discomfort of a respirator that is too small for my face, I liked the fact of knowing the dust wasn't going in my lungs.  You could see the dust in the air for feet all around the mill.  Got to find a respirator that fits well...

[Larry]

The 3M 7500 series comes in three sizes.  Really soft rubber mask.  Available at Lowes with a $30 something price tag.  Best fit I've found.

[grweldon]

Thanks for the tip Larry, I'll check it out...  I think I was wearing a 7500 but when I bought it I didn't see different sizes.  Now I know...  Got it from Home Depot...
Thanks again...

[WoodenHead]

Perfect seal or not, I've been working with the 3M mask recommended by Magicman and I'm noticing the difference.  I'm glad I asked.  Thanks!