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4/4 or 5/4 for red oak?

Started by rambo, June 05, 2012, 10:12:59 PM

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rambo

Should I mill red oak at 4/4 or 5/4 if I want it finish out at 3/4" ? Finish being after kiln drying and planing.

WDH

All that I have cut at 1 1/8" finishes out to 3/4.  That which I cut at 1" finishes out to 3/4 at least 90% of the time.  1 1/8 should be plenty.  Going to a full 1 1/4" just means more passes through the planer and lower yield from the log.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

rambo

WDH,
When I got my LT15 last year it came with a magnetic scale strip for cutting 4/4, 5/4 6/4 and 8/4. Do know if someone sells a magnetic strip for cutting 1 1/8 "?

WDH

Yes.  Woodmizer has them.  You got the "standard" scale with the mill.  You can order the "hardwood" scale from them and it adds 1/8" to all thicknesses.  For example, the 4/4 scale cuts at 1 1/8", the 6/4 scale cuts at 1 5/8" and the 8/4 scale cuts at 2 1/8".  You can call customer service.  I did not find one listed on the web site, but I called them and they sent me one.

I wish that there was a magnetic scale that cut at 1 1/16", because as a woodworker, that is a good compromise.  I expect that cutting at 1 1/8" versus 1" results in a yield loss of 5 - 10%.  Technically, the difference is 12.5%, but you do not lose a board in every log, only some.  You have to cut 9 boards out of a log to lose 1 board because of the extra 1/8".  The nice thing about 1 1/8" is that almost all the boards plane to 7/8", a vast majority will make 15/16", and most of the shorter lengths will plane to to 1".  That is nice when you are making a table top or a top to a piece of furniture like a chest of drawers or blanket chest and you want the top to be thicker than normal 3/4".
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

I've had people every now and then complain when I cut oak to 5/4 because it takes four more 1/16" passes on their little lunch box planer as opposed to 4/4 lumber.  I sell to a lot of hobbiests who don't have high end equipment.  As a compromise, I have best luck cutting at 1 1/16" as WDH suggests and end up with very few rejects.  These rejects normally are wide boards that can be ripped on a table saw after drying to make two flat boards that will easily plane out. 
Wood prone to warp and cup I saw to 5/4. 
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

rambo


WDH

I remember my lunchbox planer days  :D.  On boards with obvious cup, I rip in half, then plane, then joint, then re-glue.  Most times you cannot even tell that the board was ripped and glued back together.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

cutterboy

Hi rambo. Like WDH, I shoot for 1 1/16" but I don't have a scale that shows 1/16s so I just come down a bit over an inch on the scale and it works out pretty good. I never had a customer complain about the thickness of my lumber but one of them said "Do you know you saw your lumber oversized?"

It doesn't have to be exactly 1 1/16. A 32nd under or over is no big deal. Remember, we are producing (rough) lumber.

Happy sawing, Cutter
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

Chuck White

I have sawn Red Oak for a customer on a few occasions.

The first time, he wanted it sawed to 5/4, so that's what I did.

The next time I sawed RO for him, he said saw it at 4/4.  His finding was that the lumber was smooth and even enough to plane it to 3/4" from 4/4.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

scsmith42

Keep in mind the impact of drying shrinkage on what you mill.

Most oak shrinks abou 5% - 6% when flatsawn, and around 10% - 12% when quartersawn.  So, if you mill flatsawn lumber at 1-1/16", it will dry down to 1", leaving 1/8" per side for surfacing. 

Because QS lumber shrinks twice as much as FS when drying, you need to mill at 1-1/8" minimum if you want a dry, 1" rough sawn board.

Wide boards tend to move a bit more during the drying process, so if you're milling 8" or wider boards and want to S2S them to 3/4, it's best to add another 1/16" to 1/8" to the dimensions above.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

rambo

Man!! After this post I just became a better sawyer. ;D

woodmills1

on my non computor LT 40 I cut 1 and 1/8


with the LT 70 and setworks I use 1 1/16 with the blade and set into the computor................even my high school customer kids have material left to plane after their first heavy pass
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

WDH

Scott,

Your point about the extra shrinkage of quarter sawn lumber and leaving more "meat" on the bones is a very good one when dealing with high value lumber like quarter sawn white oak where the extra wood is miniscule in relation to the potential value of the board.  For example, wide quarter sawn white oak with good figure can bring double the price of flatsawn.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

scsmith42

Quote from: WDH on June 07, 2012, 08:55:05 PM
Scott,

You point about the extra shrinkage of quarter sawn lumber and leaving more "meat" on the bones is a very good one when dealing with high value lumber like quarter sawn white oak where the extra wood is miniscule in relation to the potential value of the board.  For example, wide quarter sawn white oak with good figure can bring double the price of flatsawn.

Yup.  One thing that I've found, wide QS boards that are 1" after drying don't always S2S to 3/4, and it is difficult to sell a 5/8" thick board....

However, probably 3 out of 4 customers will spend the extra $ to buy 5/4 material if I don't have 4/4 available.  I charge the same price per bd ft for 5/4, but obviously each board costs 25% more due to the extra thickness.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

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