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I found this picture scary...

Started by Indiana Robinson, June 01, 2012, 10:29:16 AM

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Indiana Robinson

One of the guys on the Shopsmith forum found this picture. It scares me and I am not afraid of anything...


 


.
Lifetime farmer.
Lifetime sawdust lover.
Old Tractor lover.
Have worn a lot of hats.
Once owned a Kasco mill that would saw a 30"x24' log. Now a new little LT-10 Woodmizer for my own lumber.
And yes, my woodshop is seriously infested with Shopsmiths.
Old geezer trying hard not to be one. :-)

Misfit

There's an accident looking for a place to happen.  :o
I am neither a Philopolemic Blatherskite nor a Bloviating, Sialoquent Blatteroon.

"Say nuthin and saw wood."

jim blodgett

You ever see those depression era photos of working class people missing one arm, or leg?  Staring blankly into the camera?  I think Sally Mann took a lot of those, but don't hold me to it.  Anyways, very spooky stuff.

Every time I hear or read someone laud capitalism as this great eceonomic model, or curse those "danged OSHA inspectors" with their "stupid safety regulations" I think about those photos.

The profits of the few are generated at the expense of the many.  No question about it.

rmack

the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Cypressstump

Ouch,, Ohh I have a splitting headache. That's disturbing to me as well.
Stump

Timberking 1220 25hp w/extensions -hard mounted
Case 586E 6k forklift
2001 F350 4X4,Arctic Cat 500 4 wheeler wagon hauler
Makita 6401 34",4800 Echo 20"er, and a professional 18" Poulan PRO , gotta be a 'pro' cuz it says so rite there on tha' saw..

Magicman

 :o :o :o  I place a lot more value on my parts than some folks.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

sealark37

It is a widely known facet of human nature that some people consider themselves proof from any harm and agile enough to avoid any hazard.  I do not know how that fact translates into a criticism of capitalism and innovation.  If you applied to the government to permit the design and use of a portable sawmill, you would wait in vain for a long time.  Regards, Clark 

4speed

OUCH! That picture made my head hurt, and the video made my hands ache. I don't understand or believe in any of Darwin's theory, but there might be some sort of natural selection about to happen there.

sandhills


beenthere

Agree, it looks scary. If the blade is sharp, it will cut that wood like butter.

IMO, OSHA should butt out. And the statement "The profits of the few are generated at the expense of the many.  No question about it. " to me is OSHA profited at our expense. May not have been the way it was intended. ;)

If someone wants to put their limbs/fingers on the line that way then that is their business. I see it no different than someone jumping out of an airplane in a free-fall for the fun of it, or the skiers doing summersaults in the air, or the rock climbers going up mountains without ropes, or some of these fair rides that are for the thrill.  Or the jokers that walk in a cage with a wild animal just cause it looks dangerous and eventually it will be when the animal gets tired of playing the "nice" game.

For the guys that lost their limbs, gotta say they prolly won't do it again that way.

But makes a good picture. And I wouldn't do it that way.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

clww

The first picture and that video are two things I won't ever be doing. I have enough accidents as it is (he knocks on wood).
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Norm

I've seen too many neighbors loose limbs from designs that gave no thought to safety and only to getting it out the door. Uncovered PTO's have killed numerous children due to a moment of inattention or slip in the wrong direction. While you may not be a fan of osha I'm less a fan of companies making dangerous equipment for profit.

And I'm guessing the ones who lost their limbs won't do it again as they lost that limb..... >:(

MHineman

Quote from: beenthere on June 01, 2012, 04:41:47 PM
IMO, OSHA should butt out.

If someone wants to put their limbs/fingers on the line that way then that is their business.
If everyone was paying their own way for all their stupidity, then let them have at it.
  In today's world we all end up paying when other people get hurt.  Either through higher insurance premiums, or through higher bills from the hospital when that guy simply does not have even a fraction of the total bill due.  The hospitals charge us all much more that our share to make up for the uninsured or underinsured that have no resources.
  Then you have the guy that's disabled and getting disability from doing something stupid instead of continuing to be productive and paying taxes.
  The rest of his family shouldn't suffer because he's not able to evaluate what is safe and what is not.
1999 WM LT40, 40 hp 4WD tractor, homemade forks, grapple, Walenstein FX90 skidding winch, Stihl 460 039 saws,  homebuilt kiln, ......

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: jim blodgett on June 01, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
The profits of the few are generated at the expense of the many.  No question about it.

Free enterprise (not to be confused with "free trade") and the profit motive are the reason that you get to enjoy the greatest standard of living the world has ever known.

I seriously doubt that the idiot in the photo is doing what he is doing at his  boss's direction, if he is, then they are both idiots, and no amount of legislation or regulation can ever cure that.

Thanks to odious regulatory "protections", our nation is very quickly losing that standard of living. If things don't change drastically, and soon, we will become a nation of the safest, healthiest serfs the world has ever known.



ArborJake

 One thing I,ve learned for shure is that the government and the people who run it don't give a rats !@# about you, me the "workers" the environment or anything else except when its time  for you to vote for them. If you think they do your niave and Al Gore is laughing all the way to the bank. The more they get involved the worse it get's and then, they of course will tell you they are the only ones who can fix it. Let our judicial system handle the guys that are grossly neglegent. If you see someone doing something dangerous, warn him. If he won't listen, let him learn for himself. If we don't stop asking the government to get involved with everything then Delaware Jack is exactly right.
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Paul_H

Each adult is responsible for their own safety and if they think a job too dangerous or a employer reckless then draw a line in the sand and be prepared to move on if crossed.We just need the sand in our craws to do it.
I understand what Beenthere is saying and he's right imo that they(OSHA type agencies) can go too far.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Dave VH

I feel like I cut myself just looking at that picture.

I do my best to keep me and my guys safe, but if osha really wanted to, they could put me out of business fast
I cut it twice and it's still too short

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: Paul_H on June 01, 2012, 09:37:03 PM
I understand what Beenthere is saying and he's right imo that they(OSHA type agencies) can go too far.

It's actually much worse than that. OSHA is a weapon, it is used by statist types to crush the competition. There was a small cabinet shop that opened up a few blocks from my families yard 20 years ago. They were putting out fantastic products at very good prices. They presented a threat to a well established (and politically connected!!!!) shop in the area. The owner of the new shop had been very conscientious about installing safety guards, air filters and such. One day he gets a surprise visit from OSHA. They detect (going from 20 yr old memory) something like 2mg of wood dust per cubic meter in the shop and shut him down. He tried to jump through their hoops, but found that it would cost $50k to install filtration to meet the regulations. He closed shop a month later.

Case #2:

There is a company next door to the yard that recycles used motor oil into heating oil. They have been in operation for 20 years. They have been excellent neighbors. They produce no odors, they don't make any noise, and they take an item that used to get poured down storm drains and make a useful product from it. In twenty years they've had one spill that was less than 100 gallons, and was contained and cleaned up. They've processed millions of gallons of used oil.

About 6 weeks ago Wilmington police, Delaware police, DNREC, and, I kid you not, FBI! showed up. The cops were wearing SWAT GEAR.........BULLETPROOF VEST, HELMETS AND M4'S!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently some oil was "detected" in the sewer system. The whole area has been under MAJOR pressure from developer to drive the existing businesses out so that they can put in more "riverfront attractions".

The owner has thrown in the towel. He told the "officials" not to worry, they are preparing a site in Baltimore, and will be closing up shop and moving there by the end of the year.

15-20 jobs lost thanks to "protecting the environment" so that some more nighclubs for yuppies, or "mixed income" neighborhoods can be built. And some politically connected LEACHES can fatten themselves up.

Buearacracy is a club to bludgeon others to death to get what you want...but only if you pay off the right stooges.

/rant off, good night all, and happy milling ???



mikeb1079

wow this thread went south quickly.... ::)
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

ForestMan

I think that's AWESOME.  Go for it dude!  Cut up that whole pile behind you.  I'm behind you all the way (about 20 feet)  ;D
There is nothing like the natural beauty of wood.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: mikeb1079 on June 01, 2012, 10:22:42 PM
wow this thread went south quickly.... ::)

Sorry if I take it personally when people want to take away my ability to earn a living. I still have all of my limbs and digits, and I would never coerce someone to risk theirs, and I abhor the suggestion that it is my intention to do so.

Paul_H

I thoroughly enjoyed running my old square head,flat belt driven 4 sided planer even though many people thought it dangerous.I knew it could be so precautions were taken and that fine old vintage hunk of iron turned out some nice boards in my pursuit of happiness.

I listened to a faller for an hour in the crummy on the way to work one day talk about the companies not caring about the men,only the dollar and that he knew guys were killed on the job because they were afraid to lose their jobs if they refused.(I often smelled pot on this guy at work).
I asked him how many of the guys killed,were severely hungover from all nighters? He allowed it was a real factor in the death of a few that we knew.I asked him if he was willing to let a company control his after hours and he admitted he wouldn't.
Common sense and personal responsibility is what is needed.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

captain_crunch

Looks like a cacaulated risk to me Try  bucking a 5 ft log off root ball on 40 deg slope :o :o Have had 2 go over me  but 5 ft left on root wad caused it to pole vault over my scared butt :'( So his splitter don't even make me nervious
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

bushmechanic

Didn't anyone here use a table saw for carpentry work-same thing and just as dangerous.You have to keep in mind that the saw blade doesn't move the man is moving.

Norm

Callous remarks about someone losing a limb are uncalled for whether you like osha or not.

Indiana Robinson

Quote from: bushmechanic on June 02, 2012, 04:20:10 AM
Didn't anyone here use a table saw for carpentry work-same thing and just as dangerous.You have to keep in mind that the saw blade doesn't move the man is moving.



You have got to be kidding...  That blade "IS" moving... It is fixed on an axis but it is spinning. How could you even begin to compare that large sawmill sized blade with what is typically 10" blade on a table saw??? A table saw can easily injure you painfully but is not going to cut you in half. When I use one of my table saws I am guiding the wood against either a fence or with a miter gauge and the surface of the wood against the table is a completely flat surface not a round log or a rough split face that can rock back and forth and bind a blade. Also the blade on a properly used tablesaw is not sticking several feet above the wood. It is normally 1/8th to 1/4 inch above the wood. Not the same thing by any stretch.
Who here would freehand firewood into your big circle sawmill??? On your sawmill I would hope that you have a danger zone that you keep your body parts out of.

Having said that, I do generally believe that individuals should be free to do stupid things if they are doing it for themselves. As stated it is akin to jumping out of airplanes or tying rubber bands to your ankles and jumping off of a bridge.
I didn't see the splitter as nearly as dangerous as the saw even though the operator did make a few moves (like some of his vertical second splits) that were extra dangerous. The danger zone on the splitter was actually quite a small area and a little basic (not extreme) guarding might make it "look" safer.  ;)
I was actually a little surprised at how effective it was and also surprised at how little it seemed to want to twist the billet if it hit a little off.
I have a bit of a collection of old Gravely garden tractors and one of the attachments I acquired was a new in the box "Unicorn" style log splitter. I'm not sure that I see that splitter in the video as more dangerous than the Unicorn. BTW, so far I have not used that splitter but I originally bought it to use. These days my awkward skill is stronger and so I avoid stuff I can fall into when I can.  :)

Back to the firewood saw. There are several things that might make it less foolish. Reducing blade size would be a good start. Perhaps a device that would grip the billet and give it handles so you hold from only one side.  The "free-handing" of an odd shaped piece (which I would NEVER do on one of my tablesaws) is the biggest problem after the silly large blade.

I have done a lot of risky things in my life but always with careful study of the risk. As it sits in the picture that firewood saw wouldn't get to first base on my "I can do that" list.
As an old lifetime farmer I grew up going to farm meetings and dinners and seeing a shocking number of guys with one arm gone. A personal friend lost both arms in a corn picker. I personally know (knew) a number of guys that died in farming accidents including a close neighbor who lost  a small son about 7 or 8 years old.
Anybody that thinks that the old days and the old workplace safety attitudes was better is wearing blinders and is in denial. I shall not seek their advice...

.
Lifetime farmer.
Lifetime sawdust lover.
Old Tractor lover.
Have worn a lot of hats.
Once owned a Kasco mill that would saw a 30"x24' log. Now a new little LT-10 Woodmizer for my own lumber.
And yes, my woodshop is seriously infested with Shopsmiths.
Old geezer trying hard not to be one. :-)

rmack

lol!... no shortage of guys whining about government getting in the way... funny how quick the story changes when they need somebody to come in and clean up the mess caused by some half with chasing a quick and careless/irresponsible buck.  :D
the foundation for a successful life is being able to recognize what to least expect the most... (anonymous)

Welder Bob
2012 LT40HDSD35 Yanmar Diesel Triple
1972 Patrick AR-5
Massey Ferguson GC2410TLB Diesel Triple
Belsaw Boat Anchor

Magicman

Several years ago my Son and I watched a family splitting firewood with a PTO driven screw splitter.  There was a young boy about my Son's age helping.  The very next weekend, he got tangled in the splitter.  What a horrible loss.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

tcsmpsi

Put 6 of those on a shaft, and it would look like the saw I ran back in the early '70s....but, safer.   :D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

stumpy

The problem with SOME of the safety regs is they are born out of people being irresponsible.  What I mean is, when an accident happens, the authorities first reaction is to impose a new regulation rather than going to the source of the problem.  The worker. Case in point.  I used to work for a local electric utility.  When an accident or injury occurs, an investigation is conducted.  No problem with that, but where it goes from there is the problem.  I had a worker shoveling in a hole after setting a pole.  He claimed he threw out his back while doing it.  After a thorough investigation and a 3 page report, it was concluded that the company should research alternative shovels.  Mind you, he was using a standard 5' shovel the likes that have been used since dirt was invented.  It was also sunny summer, he was a healthy 26 year-old and he was shoveling sandy soil. Oh, and by the way, he was in the middle or remodeling his home and by claiming injury, he was able take a week off(paid) to rest.  Any guess what he was doing during that week?
My long winded point in this is that too many times, we fail to realize the real cause of accidents, nor do we hold those involved responsible for the activity. If a man wants to operate that scary log splitter, let him.  If he's careful, no problem.  If he's not, It's his problem.
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

John S

It may be somewhat unsafe but it looks like the fastest splitter that I have seen.
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

Paul_H

We had a oldtimer that drove logging truck for us in the early 90's.He was in his mid 60's and was a good humoured guy to work with.His wife inherited a farm in Saskatchewan and they moved back there to do some farming.
Bill was having trouble with the pto on his tractor and was under there with a hammer.He got caught and lost his arm at the elbow.I asked his son after a couple months how Bill was making out and he said "Dad says he's feeling shorthanded around the farm these days"
He still kept on farming.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

red pine

I totally agree with Indianna the difference between table saw and this huge buzz saw blade is like night and day. On a table saw without any guides if the piece of wood binds against the blade watch out. The piece can easily pearce through paneling wall. If lucky the saw will jamb and stop the blade. I don't think this huge saw would jamb so here comes a sore gut for weeks, hopefully not in the head that could finish you off. You don't have to slip unto the blade to die. :'( Red Pine 

cutterboy

I wonder if the picture of the big saw and the stupid operator is real. Could be photoshopped. I can't imagine anyone being that fearless and stupid at the same time. But hey, he is wearing safety glasses. ::)
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

trailman

table saws are the most dangerious saws made. i feel safer behind a band mill.hope that guy dosnt get hurt.b

Indiana Robinson

Quote from: cutterboy on June 02, 2012, 02:29:48 PM
I wonder if the picture of the big saw and the stupid operator is real. Could be photoshopped. I can't imagine anyone being that fearless and stupid at the same time. But hey, he is wearing safety glasses. ::)



There are millions of them...
One day back in the early 1960's I was driving down a back street in town and typical of a small Indiana town then the street had an extremely high crown. There were cars parked on both sides of the street and about a lane and a half in the middle. A guy about 25 or so had his car parked at the curb and the level of the car reflected the crown of the street. He had the back end jacked completely off of the ground with the silly string bean bumper jack that came with the car sitting in the middle of the back bumper. He had removed both rear wheels and was laying "under" the rear axle jerking on a big wrench on something under there... I just pulled over as far away from him as I could and drove on gently past him and didn't look back...

My first car that was all mine (I learned to drive on tractors and in a Model A Ford truck)  was a 1952 Plymouth. I bought it from the widow of the guy that drove it half way on his concrete carport, pulled on the parking brake and crawled under it to remove the drive shaft to put in a new universal joint. Apparently he was unaware that those Chrysler product cars parking brake was mounted on the rear of the transmission. When he took the drive shaft out the car rolled back off of the carport. The situation was likely compounded by the fact that as was the fad back then the car had been seriously lowered... They said it killed him instantly. I never worked under that car (and I did often) or any car without thinking about him. I'm sure his goof made me work safer.
I have seen this kind of stuff going on all of my life...


 

.
Lifetime farmer.
Lifetime sawdust lover.
Old Tractor lover.
Have worn a lot of hats.
Once owned a Kasco mill that would saw a 30"x24' log. Now a new little LT-10 Woodmizer for my own lumber.
And yes, my woodshop is seriously infested with Shopsmiths.
Old geezer trying hard not to be one. :-)

Jeff

Maybe that's a photo of Weisyboy. We've not heard from him in quite some time.  Looks like one of those "bench saws" he talked about.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Slingshot


Satamax

Whoah Slingshot!

This makes the first one look safer! :D
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Indiana Robinson

We set up and do demo's and other activities at an event each fall at the Conner Prairie living history museum just north of Indy. We have done that for many years.
We used to take quite a bit of equipment up there but as we get older and gas got higher we started cutting back on the larger stuff. It is about a 100 mile round trip and we have evolved more into stuff we can get there in just a couple of trips. I used to haul at least 3 tractors, a large tractor corn sheller (MM), a buzz-saw and a lot of other stuff including a hand cranked sheller.
They provided the corn for us to feed the shellers and someone running a sawmill would provide the slab-wood for us to cut up into firewood with the buzz-saw.
We always roped our area off to keep folks away from the machinery when it was running.
For the last several years they have not been able to get anyone to bring in a mill so I was at one point hauling long limbwood as well to buzz up. I finally just quit taking the buzz-saw because guys kept wanting in jump in and help and frankly some of them scared me to death. Absolutely zero common sense around the machinery at all. Some of them I would not have trusted with a sharp pocket knife. I grew up using this kind of stuff. I guess they grew up playing basketball or something.
It was also becoming more of a fight as time passed keeping kids and parents both from crossing the safety ropes and walking carelessly right up against spinning machinery as if it were made of Tinker Toys...  :o :o  These days we take more hand tools and let the kids do stuff like drive nails, plane boards and hand shell an ear of corn. They might bleed a little but won't get mangled or killed.
Here is a picture of me belting my Allis Chalmers C up to the buzz-saw shortly after arrival one year.


 



.
Lifetime farmer.
Lifetime sawdust lover.
Old Tractor lover.
Have worn a lot of hats.
Once owned a Kasco mill that would saw a 30"x24' log. Now a new little LT-10 Woodmizer for my own lumber.
And yes, my woodshop is seriously infested with Shopsmiths.
Old geezer trying hard not to be one. :-)

Buck

Quote from: Jeff on June 02, 2012, 03:10:23 PM
Maybe that's a photo of Weisyboy. We've not heard from him in quite some time.  Looks like one of those "bench saws" he talked about.


Nope, not Carl(weisyboy). He's still around. He Facebooks too but he's not as active online these days
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

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