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hydro locked engine

Started by loader man, May 28, 2012, 04:59:16 PM

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loader man

We have a 97 hydro ax 511ex with a Deere 6068t engine.  This morning I was running it for maybe 10 minutes and it died.  I tried to restart it and it just clicked.  I got off and looked at it and diesel was all over the last 2 injectors running down the front of the engine.  The motor oil was way over full with diesel.  Could an injector have stuck open and flooded the cylinder?   What damage could have been done?  We are going to replace those 2 injectors tomorrow. 
God Bless The Little Ones Who Make The Future

Ford_man

I bought a pickup that was rolled on it's side , when I went to start it it was locked up(it is gas)we took the plugs out and cranked it to purg the oil out of the cyl. it smoked for a few miles then cleared up I have put 175000 miles on it and it don't use any oil. Good luck.  smiley_chop splitwood_smiley

Bobus2003

I have hydro-locked many Powerstrokes while doing injector swaps, Just pulled a glow plug(s) and turned it over, blew the oil/fuel out, put glow plug(s) back in and ran no problems. Now if the Injector hung open, and was ran this way for a decent amount of time it could have washed the cylinder, which would mean the sleeve/rings would need to be replaced. (Had this happen to a truck beginning of the year, ended up having to replace the engine). But if it was just a quick happening it may have done no damage, How did it die? a slow chugging to death or a quick stop? A quick stop would be the worst, could result in bent/broke connecting rods. As for the diesel in the oil, no worries, I flush my equipment and trucks out ever couple of oil changes by draining the oil, then filling with diesel running for 10-15 minutes then draining and filling with oil again.. gets things nice and clean.

SPIKER

ok first off not familiar with that engine so cant say for sure.

one for oil to be way over full w fuel there is probably something other than a stuck injector causing that.   gear drive mechanical fuel pumps can do this when internal seals go out the high pressure fuel escapes through seal into gear drive and back into oil.   Similar can happen with hydro pumps that are front engine gear drive that gets engine oil for the gear drive lube.

front of engine covered could be due to the oil/fuel contamination and over full leaking out there?   over full of oil can/will cause engines to stop after a few min of running on many engines so this one could be no different.   Had to put a gas shut off valve on my rider as it would overfill and run past rings ruin case oil.   it would run a few min and sputter and then die.   Funny thing about a month ago the neighbor (he knows I work on everything I own in a feeble attempt to keep one thing partly running.)   

I heard his running rough and sputtering then died and would not re-start.   He came up (I was working on the OLD rider one with gas issue.)   He said his quit running and if I had a chance to could I take a look, said it did same thing an hour earlier.   I asked him to look at his oil level & that it sounded like it was over full probably a fuel contamination.   he said naw that it was always good on oil.   so we go take a look was a quart over at least and gas soaked...   his face got red and I simply smiled and said to install a gas shut off and use it.   and to check his gas cap for open vent (bugs dirt etc clog up vent) and the tank evaporates builds pressure and pushes gas out of line into carb and down into intake filling oil as it runs past rings.   Yes the piston/cyl can fill up and if cranked over blow the head bolts right out too...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

snowstorm

do not turn it over without pulling the injectors all of them. check the transfer pump

Clam77

If an injector got stuck open while it was running, it would have smoked for a lil while like you set a tire on fire and it would have started knocking before it died. 

As Bobus said- a little diesel in the oil wont hurt it TOO much as you said it only ran for about 10 mins.  If you'd been able to run it for an hour or so.... you'd be rebuilding an engine and putting new rod and main bearings in it- possibly cam bearings too.   :-\

Change the injectors if you were going to anyway but otherwise, I'd leave them.  Drain the crankcase, fill it with fresh lube, and keep a close eye on it tomorrow.  If it fills up again rather quickly (like within 10-15 mins again), jerk the injector pump off and have the seals checked/replaced. 
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

loader man

anyone know how to get a stuck injector out of deere engine we have pryed and pryed soaking in wd 40 overnight and see what happens
God Bless The Little Ones Who Make The Future

snowstorm

i have had some that came out mean. usually they will come maybe as a bent up mess

Al_Smith

I know a guy that had a stick open injecter on a John Deere 730 diesel .Not thinking they pulled it down the road and popped the clutch .It blew the block right off the engine .

Clam77

 :D   :D  That'd wake ya up.. 
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Bobus2003

Quote from: loader man on May 29, 2012, 07:45:37 PM
anyone know how to get a stuck injector out of deere engine we have pryed and pryed soaking in wd 40 overnight and see what happens

I had to use vice grips on one in my 4045T, Clip it on and a lot of back and forth twisting and pulling up and it eventually came out, messed up the injector but got it out

Al_Smith

WD 40 is not the best penetrating oil .I've used Kroil and they claim that blue blaster stuff is even better .

Another homemade stuff I've yet to try is automatic transmission fluid mixed with acetone .Makes sense it should work .The acetone is a solvent that would take the oil to the part then evaporate leaving just the oil .

bushmechanic

I agree with snowstorm,check the lift pump it may be leaking into the crankcase.When I have a stuck injector into a cylinder head I will get an old injector line and cut it to get the nut and then weld it to a 5/8 fine thread nut.With this you can attach it to a slide hammer and remove the injector and this usually dosen't hurt the injector which is good if you need a core for refund. 

loader man

we changed the 2 injectors and the oil.  We ran it for about 30 minutes stopped and checked the oil and it was way over full.  Had an old lift pump that was still good put it on and changed the oil ran it for another 30 minutes oil level was still good.  Maybe that was the problem.  I'll run it tomorrow and will know for sure.   I guess the only other option is the injection pump.  So that much oil/diesel in the crankcase will make the engine lock up until its drained out?
God Bless The Little Ones Who Make The Future

loader man

if its lift pump or injection pump would it leak at the same rate or could it be more or less at times.  Would it matter if throttle is a low speed or high speed?
God Bless The Little Ones Who Make The Future

Clam77

The injector pump is gear driven so engine speed affects it yes. 

All the lift pumps for diesels I've ever seen are either electric, or the kind that looks like a mechanical one off older cars.  The old mechanical kind can have the diaphragm leak and puke into the crankcase- the electric kind not.   

If the crankcase gets too full of fluid it locks the engine up yes - there's no room for the extra air under the piston skirts to go to so eventually it'll stop it dead. 
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Bobus2003

It's most likely the Lift pump, Be pretty hard for the Injector pump to leak fuel into the crankcase oil

Migal

Dang and I been thinking seriously of buying a Deere hmm  :(
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

bushmechanic

Nothing wrong with a Deere!

Bobus2003

Quote from: Migal on June 05, 2012, 11:22:20 PM
Dang and I been thinking seriously of buying a Deere hmm  :(

It can happen to any machine.. Deere, CAT, TJ, Tigercat..ect ect....

Migal

I know I was a mechanic for several years but did like to see the responses  ;D
Stihl learning and picked up my Log Master LM2 Cat 34hp 02 21 12! 230MF+ the toys that go with it! MS361 MS271 Stihl PB500 Echo 48" LogRite 16ft Bass Tracker Pro' Abua Garcia 5600 bait caster, Wood working equipment' Lake Lot never enough time! oh don't forget the fridge with ale! Loving Wife Rebeca

Clam77

Quote from: Bobus2003 on June 06, 2012, 11:47:06 PM
Quote from: Migal on June 05, 2012, 11:22:20 PM
Dang and I been thinking seriously of buying a Deere hmm  :(

It can happen to any machine.. Deere, CAT, TJ, Tigercat..ect ect....

Last year I needed a new fuel pump for my older lawnmower, and after buying an updated one, (which of course came without installation instructions), the guys at the sales desk told me how to install it, which turned out to be backwards.  The crankcase vacuum siphoned the gas straight through the fuel pump and completely filled the crankcase with gas till it locked it up.  Took all of about a minute to fill it full.   :D

That was just the stupidity of the sales guy there, but the engine locking up can still happen.
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

loader man

a new injection pump fixed it.  thanks
God Bless The Little Ones Who Make The Future

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