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Wood-Mizer Mills

Started by JD350Cmark, February 28, 2004, 09:42:51 PM

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JD350Cmark

Hello,

I am new to the saw milling world and new to this site.  I am looking to buy a new mill and have decided to go with a Wood-Mizer LT-40, at least the standard hyd.  I understand the difference in the standard and the super, but wondering what opinions some of you may have on these.  Some of the other posts talk about more power and bigger engines and being able to cut faster.  As I am not looking for the fastest cutting mill out there, just a good all around set up to mill Fir, Redwood and Oak on my property, and if word gets around maybe try to make a few bucks milling for people I know.  If I stay with the standard hyd, the common engine is the Kolar 25 h/p.  Anyone had any problems with it?  I ran a 2000 LT-40 stan.hyd. 25 Kolar for about 4 hours recently and did not notice and power problems, however I was going slow most of the time.  There is a 28 Kolar, 33 Nissan, and a 33 Kubota option, but looking at at least 3 weeks to get one, think I would go Kubota if I were to wait.  But I think the Kolar 25 may be just fine.  I am adding the lubemizer, accuset, (even though I still can't figure out how to use it yet) and the auto clutch.  I think it will make it more enjoyable for my dad to run once in awhile.  Any thoughts or opinions would be great.  Thanks in advance.  -Mark
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

Oregon_Sawyer

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  You can learn alot here and anything you don't see just ask.

I am on my second Woodmizer mill.  I would get the Kubota engine and seriously consider the Super mill also.

My first mill was a gas 35 horse,  it was a hydrolic but not the| "Super".  Great mill but I upgraded.  I use less fuel and can cut faster.  Faster will mean more later.  Accuset is fantastic when you figure it out.  Not to hard I'm just a Truck Driver. ;D  The lube mizer feature is very understated.  It is much better system than the drip.

Try the 13 degree blade for the wood you are cutting.

Loren

Sawing with a WM since 98. LT 70 42hp Kubota walk behind. 518 Skidder. Ramey Log Loader. Serious part-timer. Western Red Cedar and Doug Fir.  Teamster Truck Driver 4 days a week.

DR_Buck

Greetings,

I just  got my 1st mill 4 weeks ago.  A WM LT40HDG25.   I think the 28hp Kohler is going to replace the 25.  The difference is fuel injection.   I add 2 options to my basic hyd mill; (1) Lubemizer, real nice to have and a convenience (2) The de-barker, this is a MUST HAVE.   I used someone else's mill and had to manually de-bark logs. :(  What a pain and time consuming.

After I get a few $$ made from sawing I'm adding the auto clutch, lap-sider and maybe setworks option.  

Good luck with your shopping.    :D



Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Bibbyman

Welcome to the FF JD..

Can't go wrong with either choice.  Just how fast you feel the need to go.

Super HD vs. Standard HD.

Besides engine power,  the hydraulics are about twice as fast on the Super.  Also the head motors are quite a bit more powerful and faster on return and I think up and down.  The board drag back feature is also standard on the Super.

I was at a Wood-Mizer field show and did a little sawing on a Standard HD.  First thought was – "What's wrong with this thing?"  Well,  nothing,  it just wasn't a Super.

If you've never sawn on a Super,  a standard HD will do just fine,  you'll never know what your missing.  But after getting accustom to the much faster hydraulics and head speed,  it'd be hard to go back.  

The first option on my list would be the debarker.  Then Simple Setworks or Accuset,  then the Lubmizer.  Auto-Clutch is nice if you're a little over the hill (like I am) and have a little arthritis, etc.  Less necessary on the smaller engines I'd think.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Percy

Heya JD
Like Loren and Bibby, Im on my second mill(woodmizer). Me thinks Bibby has had about three ;D.
No matter which Woodmizer you get, you really cant go wrong. Machines get goofy once in a while and  with Woodmizer, they will go the extra step/mile/lightyear to get you cutting again real quick. The extra money you pay for a WM is well worth it.
On the option thing, DR Buck is right on with his debarker suggestion. I dont know what Id do without mine. Loobmizer is cool and the accuset is about my second favorite after the debarker. Speed to the next cut is impressive once you catch on to it.
 There are many people cutting lots of lumber, makin a good living with a 25 hp mill(ARKANSAWYER). That being said, Id still recommend the largest engine(diesel,and Super) if you can afford it. Even if it dont work out and you have to sell the mill(not likley) you will be able to get a good buck for it.

Good luck on whatever you decide. ;D ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Bibbyman

Well,  another point...  I think it depends on how much sawing you plan to do and how much help you plan to have.

I don't suspect one person running a mill can't see that much production increase using a Super with all the toys vs. a standard HD.   A Super and a good sawyer with a good run of logs can work 3-4 people into the ground.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

JD350Cmark

Thanks for the advice.  I guess I forgot to mention that I am getting a debarker, along with the lube-mizer, accuset, and the auto-clutch.  I figure my dad would enjoy it more with that option, so it's mainly for him.  I am in my 20's and if I can't operate the lever, perhaps I should look for another hobby. I have not cut on a super, so I don't know what I am missing.  Think I will stay with the standard, but still up in the air on engine choice.  Will the Kolar 25 have plenty of power for someone just starting out?  Like I mentioned in the other post, I will mostly be milling Fir and Redwood; 60% Fir, 30% Redwood, 10% Oak/Pine and who knows what else.  I am near the coast, about 2000 feet and get a light snow fall about 2 or 3 times a year, so I am not sure the fuel injected 28 Kolar will benefit me other than gaining 3 h/p.  Generally nice weather here on the Central California Coast.  Thanks again.  -Mark
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

kentuckyboy

Welcome to the Forum. You have made a wise decision with a Wood-mizer mill. I started last year with the very mill you are considering, including the debarker( a must). It does everything I want to do. I am 50+ and can wear 2 people out in a days time on a regular basis.I considered the Super starting out, but since I would be sawing a lot by myself could not utilize the extra speed. I am well satisfied with the WMLT40HD. The support from WM is also a big plus for someone starting out. Good luck with your decision.

FeltzE

I'd have to recommend the following options

Board return, I think it's standard now
The "Super" Model for the extra hydraulics
Remote operator station.
Debarker

Considering those Items alone I'd then go back to the manufacturers and compare prices for the mills and options.

In my opinion The brand name is less important than the options vs price. WM makes a fine product I happen to own one, which has as most operators will tell ya a few items which have had to be replaced due to normal wear and tear as with other comperable mills. The reality in my mind is to compare the options. Here is why.

For a given horsepower a similar blade will perform similarly on any of several different brand name manufactures. NOBODY wants to admit that fact though. ANY blade manufacturer will weld you a blade to fit ANY mill. Whats my point?  On the portable band mill viewfinder. The HP and Blade is what limits Production Capability. The options will make your life better and ultimately more productive with less personal effort on the operators behalf.

Next note: Why those options?

Board return: This will save you a lot of traveling while carrying lumber to stack it off the mill making your sawmilling life MUCH better especially when you line up an edger with the mill down the road.

Super (If WM) the original hydraulics are a bit slim the new ones are better. They are using it as an option to jack up the price in my opinion, therefore should be a standard item (Sorry Bibby no offence intended to WM) Hydraulics mandatory on any model if you are going to saw for a profit, because hydraulics are cheaper than labor in the long run and as with drag back capability a definite back saver.

Remote operator station. This will allow you to work in a smaller "operator zone" You can locate to a position out of the dust or in position to stack lumber or feed the edger and not have to chase after the sawhead. Additionally if i were to compare models I would check and see if the saw head controls will lock in the cut and or return settings allowing the sawyer to free his/her hands to handle the lumber. Thus making the mill more operator friendly especially when operating alone.

Debarker: Simple, Debarkers make for better blade life and ultimately sharper blades, truer cuts, faster cutting, and lower blade maintenance costs.

WM support is good, their prices are appropriately high but I am sure others are similar. I have a Blue edger to accompany my Orange saw and the team works very well together. Equally good support from each company.

The lubmizer is a bit oversold as an option. I can saw for extended times with virtually no lube in some timber and other times with as much as I can pour on due to the pitch pine with bad wind shake or other damage in the heart.

WM recommends that you unclutch your mill as you clear the cut. I did that for 3 years wearing my arm out and cycling the motor RPM each time. I have found that with .042  3/4 pitch 1.25 blades I can run the blade continusely with out any premature blade breakage. If you are running the .055's that WM is selling I wouldn't recommend that they are thicker and will stress earlier on the small drive wheels.

Drive wheels, now thats a whole 'nother discussion. Bigger is better, then there is the V-belt VS steel wheel discussion. But I think in the long run it dosn't make a lot of difference.



Well sorry for the rant.

Eric

FeltzE

Ok one more rant....

The sawmill is mearly a conveyance for a sawblade.


The motor's HP is directed to the

The head propels and guides to some extent the
The Hydraulics postion the log so the will be oriented properly.


 :-X
Rant over.... :) :)

FeltzE

Ranting about my rant now...

So much for highlighing and editing after writing, You will have to decipher what I think I ment... I think

 ;D

Kevin_H.

I have the 24 hp onan on my wmlt40, I also have the debarker and setworks, When I up grade to a super I will most likely get the same options

As some of the discussion has to do with horsepower I have always had a theory (now most of the time I am wrong but that doesn't stop me  ;D ) I think that you will get more BF per sharpening with bigger motor, As your blade starts to dull the bigger engines will have the torque to keep the blade speed up.

I run a blade about 500 bf before I change it, now I could run it more but my feed speed starts to slow and it is worth it for me to change out to keep my speed up.

Just a thought, I could be wrong.
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

FeltzE

Jeff You are correct but....with higher HP you will soonreach a limit to the beam strength of the blade and you will encounter deflection and a degradation of the cut quality (wavy boards).

Eric

Bibbyman

Good discussion point about HP and blade life.

In my opinion,  when the blade is no longer sharp,  it's time to change it.  Pushing a blade that is starting to get dull is not productive or the best economic decision.  

What more horsepower does for you is it will allow you to run thicker blades with wider sets that will use the extra HP to cut faster.  Cutting faster will give you more board feet before the blade starts to loose it's keen edge.  

Everyone has noted that unless a blade has every toot just exactly right you can see where a blade made one revolution.   Let's say, just as an example,  three mills are sawing through 12" of red oak. Mill A with 15hp and .037 blades may cut something like 1/2" on each cycle of the blade.   Mill B with 25hp and .042 blades cutting 1" on each turn of the blade.  Mill C with 40+hp and .055 blades may get as much as 2" of wood sawn on each cycle of the blade.  (Look at it this way – Mill A had to pull the blade through a 100" long log 200 times,  Mill B had to pull it through 100 times,  Mill C only had to it through 50 times.)

If you take away all the rocks, grit, sand, dirt and other foreign materials,  it would stand to reason that Mill C would produce twice the board feet before the blade needs changed than Mill B and four times the board feet than Mill A.  

I can't say the above logic hold up because just cutting wood does not dull blades that quickly.  A table spoon of grit will knock the keen edge right off a blade and it'll be dull soon after.  A rock the size of a BB can blunt a couple of teeth.  
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Kevin_H.

I wonder if all the WM are running the same blade speed, or do the bigger HP mills run a faster blade?

Bib I like your math as it makes since

I'm with ya bibby on changing a blade as soon as it starts to show dull, I just wonder if the dull will show sooner on the lower HP mills

I know this may be straying from marks post, But how many of ya have blades that are too narrow to be sharpened?

Once in a while I will get a new one from resharp because of the "dulls" were too narrow sharpen

Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Minnesota_boy

I get a few replaced with every resharp order as they get too narrow.  I probably have 50 blades in a box that are too narrow that I tried to sharpen myself before I started sending all my blades to resharp, and I know I have given that many more away to blacksmiths.  I usually get a few replaced because resharp won't sharpen then when I've hit too much metal too.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Percy

Heya Kevin
I been using the1.5 inch .050's on the 70 and they seem to last longer than the .045's did on my LT40. I musta sharpened  each blade 20 times already and I think the Double hard part is starting to wear a little thin. They are slightly larger than an old 1.25 blade I had from wayback.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Bibbyman

We could probably use a little help here from the WM experts but I'd say the blade speed of their mills have increased a little in the past couple of years.  Another thing,  engines RPMs tend to creep down over time and the mill owners may not be checking.  Just a couple of hundred RPMs really make a big difference in the smaller engines.

We were accustomed to listing to the pull on the engine to set our cutting speed.  When we switching to an electric motor,  that indicator wasn't there.   We are probably still not sawing as fast as we could – just because we can't tell.  It would be nice to have a feed rate system like the LT300 has that is based on amps pulled by the motor.  I'd like to see some kind of a light bar system.  
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

neslrite

   I am on WM #2 and can't say enough good things about Woodmizer. In my previous life as an equipment engineer I have worked with equipment vendors from all over the world and Woodmizer has one of the best customer service teams  I have seen.

  My current mill is a super with the 42 kabota, remote accuset, debarker, lubemizer and board return. I hardly ever use the board return but it is nice to have when you need it.

    I would also recommend WM's resharp service I think this is an outstanding value.
neslrite
rule#1 nobody ever puts just one nail in a tree  LogRite Tools  www.logrite.com

FeltzE

Bibby, Why can't you slip a ammeter into the line on your motor?

I'm NO electrician but the idea seems pretty simple

VA-Sawyer

JD350,

    I have a 24 Hp Onan on my LT40HD sawmill. When this engine dies, I plan to put on something with more HP. If  most of your boards will be 12" or less in width, then you will be fairly happy with the 25 Hp. Mine does OK in Pine up to around 15",and  Oak up to 12".  I often cut Oak over 20" and the feed speed drops to almost nothing. When the feed speeds get that slow other problems show up. Because the blade is running so long on the same bit of wood, the wood warms up, which heats the blade. The heated blade expands, the tension drops, and the blade starts to wander.
    I agree with Bibbyman about the Super. Unless you have the manpower to feed it and pull boards , then you won't see a lot of gain in production.
    Options:
                   1. Debarker ( Pays for itself in blades and time saved)
                   2. Setworks or Accuset (saves time, reduces miscuts )
                   3.  Lubemizer  (saves hauling water )

    Not real sure about the Auto Clutch.  My first question on them would be, how durable are they ?

 Hey folks... how many have autoclutch, and how is it holding up ?
VA-Sawyer

Kevin_H.

Percy,
we are running the 1.25/.045  we get about 10 WM resharps out of a blade before They either snap or get too narrow. The worst case is when you get a blade out of the resharp box, put it on and get 100 or so bf before it breaks.

The 70 is running a bigger band wheel isn't it?

Minnesota_boy,
We have the same deal here, we get somewhere around two new blades with every resharp, sometimes because they are too narrow, sometimes we send broken blades back if they may have fail prematurly.

Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

JD350Cmark

Thanks for all the great tips.  It sounds as if the LT40 standard hyd. with the Kolar 25 will do me just fine.  I will be milling by myself at times and I can always upgrade in the future.  What are the largest size trees that you all have been able to do without doing any pre-work with a chainsaw?  I have many more questions about drying and stacking, but i'll save those for the other section and read the old posts first.  I've spent many many hours on here already and have not even made a dent in all the info on here.  Thanks, Mark
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

Oregon_Sawyer

Mark:

Woodmizer will tell you 36in.  I find anything over 32in gets to be alot of work.  With the real big ones you have to make a octogon so everything will fit.  I have had logs over 50in on the mill (don't reccomend it).

I like logs from 8in up to 24 for day in day out.

Lately we have been cutting oversize logs that have been halved or quartered.  We will be glad to get back to some round logs.

We had some smaller logs about 8 to 10 inches.  One day when my son was cutting by himself he pulled all of them out of the deck and cut them all leaveing me the odd ball ones.


Loren
Sawing with a WM since 98. LT 70 42hp Kubota walk behind. 518 Skidder. Ramey Log Loader. Serious part-timer. Western Red Cedar and Doug Fir.  Teamster Truck Driver 4 days a week.

D._Frederick

Feltz,

On my low horsepower band mill, my finding on blade life is there is only so many hours of run time for a blade before it will work harden an break. The only way to increase the bdft cut per life of blade is to keep the blade sawing any time it is running. If your WoodMizer has 19 inch wheels, run time is a factor in blade life and the amount of bdft cut per blade. What are you doing to increase sawing time, if you are leaving the blade run contantly?

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