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How long after logging does the land look natural again?

Started by JOE.G, May 23, 2012, 12:05:29 PM

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JOE.G

Hi, I had about 30 Acers of my land Logged, Due to the weather this year ( Real Mild ground wasn't frozen for long ) I didn't get as much wood as I had wanted out but still got a some. The area I had logged had a lot of Hemlock on it ( I have Cherry,ash Maple and other hard woods in different areas ) and I have a mill that takes that kind of wood not far from me. Now I know that Hemlock has a ton of Branchs and what not and I also know it depends on the kind of job the logger did. But I am wondering how long till the tops and the branchs start to rot? In ten years can you still tell it's been touched?
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bull

Depends on how you handled the tops and slash..... if you just left it as and where it fell it will take quite some time. If you cut it smaller and layed it down or skidded over it it will break down much faster !!

grassfed

Mike

lumberjack48

I always put the tops in piles, so they could be burned, left the woods slash free.
If tops aren't loped down to 12", they dry out, get as hard as deer antlers.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

barbender

Yep, that slash has to be down flat om the ground or it can really take a long time to rot. Really it's the new growth coming up that will make it look good again.
Too many irons in the fire

JOE.G

He did run alot over with the skidder and cut it real small, I am looking for my woods to be nice looking and healthy, and usable since I am always in it doing something.
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

Corley5

  The 1st two years are the worst.  A couple winter's snow pack will push the slash down and the regen will come up through it.  By the third year it won't look too bad but it will never look the same  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

thecfarm

I cut alot of hemlock on my land. Any of those good size branches that are up in the air will still be there in 10 years. hemlock branches not touching the ground will last longer than a white pine. I'm cutting in an area my Father and me cut in. He passed away in '98. I can still find some hemlock branches that we did not cut up and get on the ground. We only had a tractor so no way to run the slash over. We did not cut this area hard. I can hardly tell we was in there. I had a logger come in and do some cutting in certain areas. I had him cut those areas hard. The white pine came into to those areas. But he did a real nice job. Made it look ALOT differant. If someone put a blindfold on me and took it off when he first cut,I would not of known where I was.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JOE.G

I can always take a day and go out with some saws and my quad and chop stuff up smaller and lower.
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

CarlR

A mulcher (forestry mower) can really speed this up, but they're costly.  I have a little experience with this, here is what I've seen.

If mulched really coarsely, the largest chunks are the size of a man's arm.  These will be flat and hidden by growth in a year or two and mostly gone in 4 or 5.  If mulched finely, chunks are reduced to baseball-size at most.  The mulcher tends to roughly till these into the soil.   The chunks of this size are largely gone or buried just below the surface in the second year.  Stumps are a little different.  The mulcher can grind a stump flush or just below the surface.  But since most mulchers work more like a hammer mill than a chipper or stump grinder, it's a slow process.  Depending on the type of wood, the stump will be flat but obvious for a long time.  Grass and undergrowth is disturbed severely, but not down to the roots.  It will usually re-sprout the following spring.

Cost is a real drawback or may be prohibitive.  A tracked skid steer and a mulching head in good enough shape that they might hold together could cost $20,000 to $40,000.  These machines depreciate quickly and the risk of severe mechanical failure is high, so resale value might be zero.  Maintenance and consumable part costs are high.  Mulchers are also thirsty.  When I figured costs a few months ago I came up with $77.50 per hour for my machine (operator-me $0, no transportation cost, fuel $4.00/gallon).

Justification?  I haven't thought of a business case that supports these costs except maybe for some higher use of the land.  For continued forestry, the cost is prohibitive.  For hobby, love of the land, aesthetics or because this is what I want to do?  This might be worth looking at.

CarlR
Deere 6410 with high tensile twine skidding emerald bored ash...

grassfed

It is actually better for the land and wildlife to just leave as much of the tops and poor quality logs where they fall.  Humans may like a clean organized look but nature loves chaos. 
Mike

JOE.G

I have a skid steer here , but I am not looking to spend that kind of money. I you tubed vdeos of it and they seem cool but like you said to costly.
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

Ianab

Quote from: grassfed on May 24, 2012, 01:14:15 PM
It is actually better for the land and wildlife to just leave as much of the tops and poor quality logs where they fall.  Humans may like a clean organized look but nature loves chaos.

This..

Those messy piles of slash are where your wildlife and new tree seedlings are going to shelter. Give the ground a couple of years and things will have greened up again. It will still look "recently logged", but it will be green and look "alive" very quickly. Maybe 10 years and the slash will have rotted down and it will look like a forest again, although of course only with small trees.

Exactly how things regenerate depends on your climate, tree species, and how you manage it. Walk away and do nothing is one valid management technique, but you can also plant, thin and prune to regenerate a more desirable forest type in the future.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

JOE.G

I didn't clear cut the land I logged I just thinned it, I did make a few opened areas but nothing huge.
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

Ianab

With smaller clearings like that I'd guess a trained eye would still be able to tell the area was logged recently, but you will have a heap of regeneration and new growth happening, and it will look like a forest again.

"Natural" is a strange term. If a wind storm came through and knocked down 20% of your tress it would be  heck of a mess, but it would be a "natural mess".

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

JOE.G

The ferns are already regrowing, All i want to happen is for the slash to be cleared up a bit, either by my help or though natural causes, I am young I can wait five years, I may log some more this winter.
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

bill m

As others have said it all depends on how the logger deals with the tops and slash.
This is a picture of one of my jobs after one year

 
The next photo shows some of the white pine regeneration after one year.

 
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

thecfarm

bill,you can come log mine land anytime. A very nice job. This is what the public needs to see.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JOE.G

Bill very nice, That is what i am looking for for some areas, others I d like it a little more Natural for the animals, I have the woods near my home looking like took a lot of cutting and burning to do it.

What did you do with your tops and slash?
Husqvarna 562XP Woods Ported .025 pop up MM
Husqvarna Rancher 55 2005
Husqvarna 450 Anniversary Edition 2010
STIHL 009 1998
STIHL HT 131 Pole Saw 2012
STIHL FS 110 R Trimmer 2010
STIHL BR 600 Magnum Blower 2012

bill m

The slash is all still there, I just cut it small so it lays down flat.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

terry f

   "Humans may like a clean organized look but nature loves chaos", alot of truth to that grassfed. I work in the animal feed business, and you sell pretty feed to the customer, the animal couldn't care less what the feed looks like.

Holmes

Think like a farmer.

Corley5

  I started a northern hardwood thinning last winter and finished it early this spring and the landowner was unhappy because of all the slash and we cut it down so NOTHING was more than 24" off the ground and very few were that high most were flat.   I told him when we started that it would look bad for a couple years.  Guess he didn't believe me  ;) :)  He and his wife were judging it right after the snow melted before anything began to green up.  It didn't look any worse than any other log job and better than most.  The NRCS agent I worked with on the job thought it was fine and did his best to smooth things over but I guess we won't do the rest of the job  ;D 8) :) :)  The land owner was also POed because we didn't get every stick of 100" pulp and when I sent the forwarder back to clean up his trails when the last of the snow melted my operator didn't pick up some we'd left like HE told him too so HE could cut it for firewood.  I figured from the firewood he'd cut and stacked in his shed and what I saw on the ground that we might have left 5 pulp cords at the most.  He didn't get it when I told him that for what I got paid for it after costs that I couldn't chase every last stick.  He told that he didn't want it going to waste and we'd made work for him cleaning up.  I told him that it wasn't going to waste he was utilizing it and if it rotted back into the ground that was good thing.  He said that we should have left them stand in that case and had nothing to say when I told him that this was an improvement thinning and the trees were cut for the benefit of the trees we left whether we picked them up or not.  The best timber was on the piece we cut.  The rest is 80% pulp and on some pretty rugged hills too.  No reference from him  ;D :D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

g_man

This is how I leave slash on my own land. I just cut it so it is close to the ground. Most people would probably think this is an awful job. I don't know... maybe it is. But I prefer to leave everything that dosn't go on the truck right in the woods were it came from. Good for the soil, Good for the wildlife, and protects new growth.





People who need there woods to look neat and tidy and call it natural have not spent much time observing mother nature.

gg

WDH

g_man,

To me, that is a great looking job.  Bill, you also do very nice work!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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