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Building a Pond

Started by Ironwood, May 20, 2012, 08:44:20 PM

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Norm

A dozer will not be enough to compact with, you'll need to use a sheepsfoot to do the job correctly. Make sure the keyway is done correctly, if you don't know how or have the equipment to do it hiring will be the best way to go.

tcsmpsi


This is my small pond.  I originally dug it long ago when I lived in another place, but needed a waterhole for critters I kept on the property.  The following are pictures of the 'rebuild' I did a few years ago.  Though not very large, it is a bit deep.  It is built in the way of the primary waterflow of the property. 
In the first picture, you can see the bank that the tractor is sitting on and where it just begins to taper down (tractor road), that is where the overflow is.  It is concrete with an array of pipes in it, and is also built so that, in really big rain (or, in case of stoppage), it can flow over it.  The 'pond' is also a control tool for erosion. 




 



 



 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

WDH

That is a great bridge!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

tcsmpsi

 ;D  Though the bridge/walkway from the house will remain, there is significant transformation going on from the back of the house to the pond, Danny.  Fairly soon, the top walkway/bridge will be covered.   So, neigher rain, nor hail, nor sleet, nor snow, shall keep it from its purposes.   :D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

doctorb

Nice bridge!

Maryland is an over-regulated state to beging with, so pond constuction permitting is tough here.  I tried to enlarge the existing pond that was on my property when I purchased it.  My pond is not fed by a stream, but by springs.  There is no above ground inflow, other than some rainfall, into the pond.  My thoughts were to move the dam, include other springs to help with inflow, and improve the ecology of the entire situation.  (My brother is a botanist who occasionally works for the State of Mass. as a consultant on ecological impact of construction, etc.  So I had good free expertise regarding the environmental impact of my plan.) I brought in the regulators from the county, state and feds on the same day and time.  (Talk about having that get arranged!).  They looked at my situation, said that I had some wetlands (leaking dam!) that should not be disturbed.  They were worried about trout forage downstream.  I told them that I could improve that with aeration of the pond and outflow from the cooler, bottom of the pond instead of the standard warm surface outflow.  I informed them that there were a total of three ponds down stream, none of which were maintained and all of which affect the trout ecology much more than mine.  I was told that each situation and parcel of land is judged separately, and that what happened on another property was not considered in the decision on my land.

Eventually, they gave me their best offer.  They would permit me to move my dam if I drained my current pond, built sealed culverts protecting the multiple springs which fed the pond, isolating the natural water source from the pond and channeling it into the stream (leading to those other three ponds).  To supply my pond, they said I would have to dig a well(s) which would pump water into it, eventually having its effluent join the stream outflow of my property.  I asked them if they knew what that would cost.  They just shrugged their shoulders and left.  I still have the original pond but lost a small personal dream that day.

So look out for the regs and permits.  I am sure each state is different and PA is generally better run with regardsd to natural resources than MD.  Good Luck and keep us posted.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

tcsmpsi

Well, Doc, that's about as ridiculous assumptions and outlandish theory as I have heard.   Sounds like whomever came up with all that hulabaloo had way too much cocainum in their diet. 

Sincerely, I feel for you and your lost dream.
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

scsmith42

Quote from: Norm on May 22, 2012, 07:03:37 AM
A dozer will not be enough to compact with, you'll need to use a sheepsfoot to do the job correctly. Make sure the keyway is done correctly, if you don't know how or have the equipment to do it hiring will be the best way to go.

+1, although a fully loaded dump truck is pretty good at compaction.
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Ironwood

I am thinking PSI as well, and my 23,000 lb forklift can carry 14K, so 37,000 lbs on six tires, should be ALOT, like a dumper, although I may find a good sheepfoot or make one. Good input.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Clam77

I've helped build several ponds so I can add a little here as far as actually building it - most of the critical points have already been mentioned.  Alot of excellent ideas have already been presented for after it's built.

-Get it as deep as you want- a good beginning depth is 20-25 feet - deeper would be better if you can.  Someone mentioned it'll save you from having winter-kill.  It'll also save from summer-kill as the water warms up.  As stated it'll also help with natural aeration making it so you won't need to waste money creating it.  You can also have plants like cat-tails and small trees around an edge without worry of them overtaking the pond as they're a relatively shallow water plant.

-The pond should be cored AND keyed out- period.  Get everything out of the bottom of where you're putting your dam clear down to clean clay, as well as probably 1/3 to 1/2 way back from the dam (not sure if a skid loader will be enough for you).  I'm not talking the rocky/sandy type of clay that's prevalent in PA either- good old reddish/brown clay works best.  Blue/glacial clay is good but it normally has rocks and dead and decaying trees and stuff in it you don't want.  Hydraulic pressure is an amazing thing and you wouldn't believe the leak that could show up from a rotten tree branch or a bunch of rocks sticking halfway through your dam. 

-Your forklift will work perfect as a compactor for the dam.  As Norm mentioned, a sheepsfoot would be best if you can get one (you'd want prolly a 100-150hp tractor to pull it), but if you can't get one your forklift will do for the flat work, but you'll want something else for the slopes.  Ideally you'd want to compact every FOOT of clay you put on it- foot of clay.. compact.. foot of clay.. etc.. clear to the very top with the slope you desire.  Blade the top for smoothness if you like but make sure it's compacted.

-You'll want your dam made entirely of clay - plan to have the top of the clay on the dam 2-3 feet above the anticipated water line, and then your topsoil on top of that. 

-Unless you're in an area that gets torrential downpours all the time, one overflow will suffice.  A low spot at one end of the dam in virgin soil (if possible) works good, with gravel and then something like a foot of 4-6" stone on top- usually stretching down into the pond 4-6 feet and down the back of the dam directing the water wherever you need it to go.  If you can't/don't have virgin soil, make sure it's compacted VERY well.

-As has been mentioned, when you go to stock it with fish (if you do), plant your rye/grass/whatever in the shallower 1/2, along with things a small tree (Christmas* trees work great), a couple rolls of woven wire fencing, maybe an old tractor tire, a large tree stump.  Once the fish get to the age of spawning, they'll compete for space and chase each other around until they die of exhaustion- things like that are just for a place for them to hide and forage bugs out of. 

-Two or three STERILE grass carp will work excellent for keeping the moss and algea down.  Herbicides will work, but I personally like to have a natural pond without the use of chemicals. 

I'm assuming you'll have the restrictions on the watershed/water-surface ratios and all that kinda stuff.  Again, your local conservation office can tell you about that.  I also think someone already mentioned- if you ASK if you can do it, you'll be dissapointed- if it won't hurt the ecology, just do it to your desire.    ;)
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Al_Smith

The idea with a core trench is you are certain it doesn't contain a bunch of sand or gravel .Any heavy weight rubber tired vehicle will work to compact it .Don't try to do it with two feet of refill at a time though .6 inches ,pack it down tight ,another 6 inches  etc .

I did mine some years ago with a 57 Ford F600 with a load of Ohio blue clay in the bed .Good stuff they made field tile out of it .

r44astro

Where I live in Florida ponds are easy, did a hole and the water will come, I dug one 10 years ago for fill to raise foundation for my building, a friend told me "It's the only job where you start at the top"!

tcsmpsi

Where the tractor sits in the first picture, was compacted originally about 25 yrs ago with an older version of the same tractor.  What more I took out in the rebuild, was just added to it, spread thinly and compacted as I brought it up out of the pond. 
It is pretty impressive (even having seen it many, many times) the amount of water that chutes through there in the heavy rains.   ;D
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

zopi

on spillways...Don't simply put a pipe in through the top of the dam...run the spill pipe through the bottom of hte dam, then use an elbow to take a riser to the planned surface of the pond...and the elbow should be one which can be rotated...sort of like the overflow in a toilet tank...this type of spill is very much harder to clog...stuff loats up to it, but doesn't go through...you can tune it by cutting little slits in the top edge of the riser...and the level of hte pond can be controlled by turning th eriser underwater by the elbow...Permaculture guy, named Sepp Holzer builds em this way...
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snowstorm

i have dug at least 25 ponds over many yrs. up here you never put your outlet in the dam. its the weakest point. was asked 2 yrs ago to build one big enought for the guy to land his float plane in. then his health went down hill fast that was the end of that project

Clam77

Right snowstorm - The only time I've seen an outlet going through the dam around here is if it's a lake- public or private.  Building a lake generally involves using more equipment though and they'll usually have a track-hoe or a tamper to get the needed compaction around it. 

Besides just a general leak, an outlet going through the dam is a perfect place for a beaver, muskrat, rats, even a whistle pig to cause some severe damage.

Any more ideas for your plans yet??   :)
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

Ironwood

I have been too busy to run over to my Conservation Dsit., Just starting to come up with some ideas. 

Good input on the outfeed not being on the dam, got that covered. Makes sense.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

WDH

Good luck at the District Office.  The Government will make it very difficult for you, I suspect.  My experience working with the Corps of Engineers on wetland mitigation bank projects was very frustrating. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ironwood

Well, I looked up the regs on smaller ponds in the state of Pa. and mine will not fall under the pervue of anyone except my local County Conservation District, sooooo hopefully that will help. 
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

shinnlinger

 


Hi,

I have a different situation.  I dug two test pits in a low spot and they have held water fine since last summer.  My vision is to remove fill between the two untill I have a pond.  Do I need a dam?  The lower test pit is full to where I want it right now and the water cant really go anywhere and if it does it wont be a JOnestown type event.  My wives main concern is mosquitoes.  I can dig down about 15 feet or so with the excavator.  Is that enough for natural airation?

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Ianab

Surface area is what you need for natural aeratoin.

Depth is needed to allow the fish to survive below ice and escape predators.

I've kept goldfish in 18" deep ponds as our climate is pretty mild. If you get real thick ice on your pond you want it more than 6ft deep. The deeper water also keeps the fish safer from predators like birds.

As long as the water stays "fresh" enough to support fish, which a large area like that should, then you won't have mosquito issues. The larvae are the favourite food of small fish.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ironwood

well, scruffed out a mini van sized "Mud Hole" along the gas line right of way.  Just for fun, the kids are WOLLOWING in it, hillarious. They are covered in mud  head to toe. running off the little "dam". what a fun tiime for them. Personally it is disgusting, but they seem to love it. So, for this year that will suffice.

Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

WDH

Playing in the dirt is good for their immune system  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

thecfarm

Seem like you had a picture last year of them doing that.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ironwood

theCF, that pic last year was clay, this is more like liquified loam/topsoil ;D
Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

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