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Storing logs under water?

Started by mjeselskis, May 17, 2012, 07:36:08 PM

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Ianab

Quote from: beenthere on May 18, 2012, 11:51:51 PM
Tie a length of rope around each log and keep one end within reach. Then just "fish" them out. 1/4" nylon rope will last for years and is not expensive.

The rope need not even be heavy enough to drag the log out. Underwater it's only going to weigh a fraction of it's full weight. You only need to drag it into the shallows where you can connect a decent chain to it and drag it out.

Ian

Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Bogue Chitto

Some do sink in the mud a little, and takes a bit of force to break the suction.   

Dave Tarheels

What is it your trying to achieve by putting these trees in the water ? What is the recommended time for a tree to soak ? Or is it the more time the better ..
LT 20 Woodmizer

WDH

The water creates anaerobic conditions where there is no oxygen in the wood.  No oxygen means that the decomposing critters cannot survive, and the wood quality is preserved.  One submerged, it can stay that way for decades.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

wdtik

I recall as a kid going on a field trip to the big sawmill in N Idaho on the Columbia river.
IIRC all the logs went into the water,  big splash when the loads were
dumped over the edge.  They were fed up the chain from the water into the mill, also
something about the bark being easier to remove.  I also remember the big log rafts headed to the mill on
the lake up in Coeur d Alene.  We stayed at a cabin that floated on huge cedar logs
at the south end, heavenly country.  CBD

4speed

This is why I love the Forestry Forum. My sawmill fund keeps getting depleted but i need to clear some large erc and oak and didn't want to just let them lay. Don't have a sawmill yet for a while, but i do have a pond. Problem solved. 

Bogue Chitto

That is what I did 4Speed before I got my sawmill years ago.  I could walk across my pond because it was stuffed with so many logs.  I thought the logs might harm the fish, but it just gave them shade and a place to hide.

CalebL

Quote from: 4speed on May 23, 2012, 10:01:29 PM
This is why I love the Forestry Forum. My sawmill fund keeps getting depleted but i need to clear some large erc and oak and didn't want to just let them lay. Don't have a sawmill yet for a while, but i do have a pond. Problem solved.

I wouldn't sink the cedar.  I've cut cedar logs that have set for over a year and they didn't have any problems. 
2005 LT40 HDD34
2000 Cat 226 Skid Loader

Robert Duval

Can this be done with cants too or does it work better if the bark stays on?

rjwoelk

Thought I would just ask how the water soaked logs are doing, have you folks milled any ? I have a 50 x 150 ft dougout , wondering about trying it. Just dont want to ruin good wood.  I was thinking about hemlock, elm?
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Don P

I've never done it but it is an age old way of storing logs, fungi need oxygen to grow. There were a few comments about a sour smell in logs that had been stored long term in warmer water, I'm pretty sure that is from anaerobic bacteria, the same ones that make methane, swamp gas, and cause the bubbles you see rising sometimes in ponds. They are slow, it would take a long time for them to be a real problem.

Years ago my Dutch Father in law mentioned that in the old country they would pond logs in salt water and it was supposed to make the wood last longer. I've seen other mention since saying ponding helps leach out the sugar. I've never come across a study about that so don't know if anyone has ever actually measured whether that is true or not.

Quebecnewf

Very interesting thread. I have often thought about storing my logs overboard in the sea. My mill on a small island very near the shore line. If I could soak my logs for a year in the sea then saw them I would have longer lasting wood for sure. Once sawed the water would dry out and the salt would be left and salt preserves wood.my problem is the rise and fall of the tide and storms . If I was set up in a nice sheltered cove with no sand on the bottom to contaminate the logs it would be great. Even if I had a small pond on the island just drain the fresh and refill with salt . Presto instant wood preserver . Not going to happen but would love to be able to do it .

Quebecnewf

Don P

Back around the turn of the century I was working on an old log cabin from back around the turn of a couple of centuries prior. They asked me to restore the "meat house" where the family had salted meat. The salt had pulped the lower parts of the studs and when I stepped in onto the floor it collapsed, the nails holding it had corroded through. Seems like there's always something  :D. I brought a couple of boards home just cause the pulping was kind of neat. The mice at the barn loved them.

YellowHammer

I did an experiment a couple years ago, I rolled a few cherry logs into the pond, and this spring, I retrieved them and milled them up.  They looked great, no problems.
I've still got one out there, beaching, then moving around where I can't get it.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Quebecnewf

Years ago when they split and salted cod fish . One of the problems they ran into was the sheds where the fish was salted lasted for years , the wood that is but the nails rusted of from all the salt in the wood. Most of these buildings were built on wooden cribs filled with rock so when the salt pickle ran down over the cribs as it squessed out of the fish it rusted out the nails on the cribs as well. You then had the foundation failing under your fish shed , wood was still good but nails were all gone.

The oldest structure in this village is a wooden rock filled crib that sits under one of these buildings . The building is newer and has been rebuilt with nails many times but the crib remains because the guy who built it had no nails at the time so he used treenails . The wood and the wooden fasteners are all preserved by the many years of salt brine that ran down over them from the salt cod stored above.

Quebecnewf

Don P

That's neat, I'm not sure at what level or why that wood was pulped but it was exposed to pure salt and probably roof leaks. The salt bin itself was in pretty good shape, we kept it, but on the stud and board bottoms you could roll the fibers off the wood with finger pressure. I assume the lignin had been dissolved. Do you ever see that type of thing from seawater?

rjwoelk

Thanks for all the info info. the best i can do is try it.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

YellowHammer

Yes, give it a whirl.  We would all be interested in what happens. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Don P

It was a similar thread but no matter, @beenthere asked about a comment I made that salt pulps wood. I was looking for something else tonight and this popped up, a study from the USFPL on salt pulping coastal wood, or their term is "defibered" the SEM images show loose fuzzy tracheids and no lignin rich middle lamella.
Avast Ye Salty Dogs: Salt Damage in the Context of Coastal Residential Construction and Historical Maritime Timbers (usda.gov)

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