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JD 440 skidder

Started by Timbercruiser, April 30, 2012, 12:35:27 AM

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Rob-IL

I just looked at my Deere 440 manuals and they (John Deere) call it the Rear Axle Differential. Even though there is a axle coupler (R37435) it's still aknowledged by Deere as the rear axle differential. I never said it was a bad thing as it works great with a small skidder on 18.4 x 26 rubber.
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

Bobus2003

Quote from: Ironwood on November 17, 2012, 08:35:37 PM
Well, I like the 440's and two buddies own them. One has an "A" and lost his engine at a motor shop that was going to rebuild it. We have two options (I bought a 1/2 interest in it), one is to get an adapter and put a Cummins 5.9 I have here, (also have a JD 3 cylinder little brother to the 4 here, likely too small HP), OR part it out. I have driven it before he lost the engine. Everything else functioned fine, Tranny, winch, diff's........It has two new forestry tires on it.

Any thoughts on the Cummins?

Ironwood

Will the 5.9l even fit? Thats a pretty good sized engine, and heavy too.. I wouldn't be overly concerned about being "over powered" My 440 is handling 130hp without any major breaks.. just shows you the weak parts in a hurry, and for my not so great tires, my lack of traction (Does good with chains on).

Ford_man

I would check out | AbileneMachine.com  or

www.worthingtonagparts.com/implement.htm
You can get a used engine the same model that you need and can be up and running in about a day. splitwood_smiley

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Rob-IL on November 18, 2012, 08:50:02 AM
I just looked at my Deere 440 manuals and they (John Deere) call it the Rear Axle Differential. Even though there is a axle coupler (R37435) it's still aknowledged by Deere as the rear axle differential. I never said it was a bad thing as it works great with a small skidder on 18.4 x 26 rubber.

I'm not sure, the later models may have had a differential. The 440, 440A, and 440B, definitely had a solid rear axle (well, it may have been made in two pieces, but if so, was coupled solidly). On another thread we were discussing it. If you go on John Deere's industrial website, they give specs for "some" former models, and some of the early 440's are on there. They specifically say there is no rear differential.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

beenthere

JDParts listing shows a "fixed differential" as an option in the models 440, 440A, 440B.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Rob-IL

The earlier 440s (440, 440A & 440B) were available with both Syncro Range or Power Shift. The P.S. ones had true differentials in front & rear. The Synro Range had a true differential in the front with the locked differential in the rear. Technically a locked differential can't really be called a differential but often is, even by Deere or at least they call it that in the J.D. 440 manuals I have. I've never seen a P.S. in a 440C or 440D. The 440Ds Ive seen seem to be identicial to a 540B or 540D but with a Synro Range transmission.   
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

thenorthman

The power shift a-b's had the full diff in front and rear with hydraulic lockers, the syncro had a "locked" rear and a lockable front diff, same axles and allot of the same parts, different tranny, and the power squish had brakes at all four wheels.  The C models and later are just different,

I was under the impression that a 540 was just a 440 with a bigger engine?  So it wouldn't be to far of a jump to say that a 440 could handle a bit more power, say 80-110 horseys
well that didn't work

Okrafarmer

Quote from: thenorthman on November 18, 2012, 06:36:12 PM
I was under the impression that a 540 was just a 440 with a bigger engine?  So it wouldn't be to far of a jump to say that a 440 could handle a bit more power, say 80-110 horseys

Really? Maybe, but first I've heard of it. I thought they discontinued the 440 because it was physically smaller than they thought they could sell enough of.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

thenorthman

Sumting I heard on the enterweb, probably horribly missleading.  Anyway I was thinking of the older machines
well that didn't work

Okrafarmer

Well, I really don't know for sure, either way. I was always under the impression that the 440 was physically smaller than the 540. I'm sure that the 540 is at least heavier and more sturdily built. Deere went to a lot of trouble in the 60's and 70's to insure that when they updated a farm tractor and gave it more power, that they also beefed up the drive components. The 5020 and 6030 look very similar, but the entire drive line is beefed up on the 6030 to absorb the extra 30-50 hp. (just read that in current issue of Heritage Iron). Even if the 440 and 540 are a similar size, Deere would likely have made the 540 tougher.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

redprospector

Quote from: Bobus2003 on November 18, 2012, 10:12:54 AM


Will the 5.9l even fit? Thats a pretty good sized engine, and heavy too.. I wouldn't be overly concerned about being "over powered" My 440 is handling 130hp without any major breaks.. just shows you the weak parts in a hurry, and for my not so great tires, my lack of traction (Does good with chains on).

You can make anything fit with a little imagination, a cutting torch, and a welder.  :D
130 in a 440 sounds intrueging, 200 sounds like scrap iron. What engine are you using for 130 horse power? I'm getting ready to re-power my Fecon FTX 90 with a 3054T Cat. That will be upgrading from 87 horse to 122, and that's going to take a lot of upgrading to make it work.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

redprospector

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 18, 2012, 08:03:57 AM
If they had just put individual wheel brakes on it, they could have given it a differential. Oh well. We've already talked about the lack of 440 differential in another thread. Evidently, the lack of differential hasn't been a serious issue or people would be complaining about breaking the driveline.

I like the brake setup on the 440b. The only complaint I have on the entire machine (that I can think of off hand) is the fact that the transmission is the hydraulic resivoir. 5 gallons isn't near enough fluid in my opinion. Even a small leak can put you in jeopardy on a long steep hill.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Rob-IL

I also like the 440B, some of the best timber I've ever harvested we were using a 440B and got along just fine. Now I'm using larger skidders, burning more fuel and rarely cut the quality of timber I cut 20+ years ago!! 
I grew up around logging but chose to be a heavy equipment mechanic for several years. Later in life my interest changed so my cousin and myself went into logging on our own in 1988.

Okrafarmer

Quote from: redprospector on November 18, 2012, 11:06:34 PM
I like the brake setup on the 440b. The only complaint I have on the entire machine (that I can think of off hand) is the fact that the transmission is the hydraulic resivoir. 5 gallons isn't near enough fluid in my opinion. Even a small leak can put you in jeopardy on a long steep hill.

For good or for evil, this is another legacy of the 440's farm equipment heritage. Up through the 1950's, JD tractors rears were compartmentalized with 2 or 3 different reservoirs. In the new models introduced in 1960 / 61, the reservoirs were all combined for transmission, rear end, PTO, and hydraulics. This was to simplify maintenance. With one big all-inclusive reservoir, it was easy to check two dipsticks-- one for the engine, and one for the rear end, and you only had to worry about two kinds of oil, for the engine, and for the rear end. So on their skidders, they took their contemporary philosophy of oil compartments, and applied it. As for whether 5 gallons is enough, I'd have to say, I can't answer that question.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

dwchaisson

I have a buddy with a 440, put a rod through the side of the block, we came across a 6cyl out of a Combine at a reasonable price it was a tight squeeze but it fit fine and works great, motor never works hard anymore, best hing he coulda done to it !!
homemade skidder, homemade band mill, home made log loader and trailer, 1993 ford 1 ton,1996 Chevy 1Ton dump, 2010 john deere 5065M with loader, 1987 trackless with blower, 576 husky,565 husky 372husky, homemade processor in the build stage, 900 david brown. 2 fordson majors. Life Long Collector

redprospector

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 19, 2012, 07:45:53 AM
Quote from: redprospector on November 18, 2012, 11:06:34 PM
I like the brake setup on the 440b. The only complaint I have on the entire machine (that I can think of off hand) is the fact that the transmission is the hydraulic resivoir. 5 gallons isn't near enough fluid in my opinion. Even a small leak can put you in jeopardy on a long steep hill.

For good or for evil, this is another legacy of the 440's farm equipment heritage. Up through the 1950's, JD tractors rears were compartmentalized with 2 or 3 different reservoirs. In the new models introduced in 1960 / 61, the reservoirs were all combined for transmission, rear end, PTO, and hydraulics. This was to simplify maintenance. With one big all-inclusive reservoir, it was easy to check two dipsticks-- one for the engine, and one for the rear end, and you only had to worry about two kinds of oil, for the engine, and for the rear end. So on their skidders, they took their contemporary philosophy of oil compartments, and applied it. As for whether 5 gallons is enough, I'd have to say, I can't answer that question.

You can take my word for it.....It ain't!!  :D

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Okrafarmer

Then put more in!  :D :D :D :D

Maybe you could install one of those sensors that tells you if your trans oil pressure is getting too low. (maybe it already has one).
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Bobus2003

Quote from: redprospector on November 18, 2012, 10:53:16 PM

You can make anything fit with a little imagination, a cutting torch, and a welder.  :D
130 in a 440 sounds intrueging, 200 sounds like scrap iron. What engine are you using for 130 horse power? I'm getting ready to re-power my Fecon FTX 90 with a 3054T Cat. That will be upgrading from 87 horse to 122, and that's going to take a lot of upgrading to make it work.

Andy

Using a JD 4045T out of Genset.. Was pretty much a bolt in.. biggest problem was the Waffle Plates and stub shafts to run the Hydraulic pump up front

thenorthman

I half wonder if that's the motor in mine?  Deere dealers around here have some personality disorders in the, Idon'tneedtotalktoyoucauseyoubuyoldjunkandrefusetobuyoverpricedoversizednew
So they are not forthcoming with information...
well that didn't work

Ed_K

Ed K

Okrafarmer

Oh, that manufacturers of portable sawmills would also be manufacturing personal-sized skidders! If companies like Woodmizer or Timberking built skidders, we would have what we needed. Including service.  :-\
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

redprospector

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 20, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
Then put more in!  :D :D :D :D

Maybe you could install one of those sensors that tells you if your trans oil pressure is getting too low. (maybe it already has one).

It has one of those things to tell if the oil level is low........A dip stick.  :D
It gets pulled at least twice a day (if I'm on it). The problem is that the 440 has a lot of steel hydraulic lines, and over 40 or so years or so they tend to crack. Even a small crack will rid you of 5 gallons of 303 tractor fluid before you even realize you have a leak. Hard on the tranny, and definately not a good thing on a 45% slope.

Andy
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

thenorthman

Last year I was pulling a turn with ye olde 9n and broke the after market farmer made hydraulic line to the bucket, five gallons in the time it took me to realize the three point wasn't working, and I was thoroughly stuck between a stump and another log that had been fell across the skid road.  Ah fond memories... My hat still has a few dents in it from that one ;D
well that didn't work

Okrafarmer

There must be a way to get a sensor hooked up inside the transmission and wired through to the operator's station and a blinking warning light. Okrafarmer says, "There's no such thing as can't, especially when it really matters."
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

lumberjack48

Quote from: redprospector on November 20, 2012, 10:28:00 PM
Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 20, 2012, 12:27:53 AM
Then put more in!  :D :D :D :D

Maybe you could install one of those sensors that tells you if your trans oil pressure is getting too low. (maybe it already has one).

It has one of those things to tell if the oil level is low........A dip stick.  :D
It gets pulled at least twice a day (if I'm on it). The problem is that the 440 has a lot of steel hydraulic lines, and over 40 or so years or so they tend to crack. Even a small crack will rid you of 5 gallons of 303 tractor fluid before you even realize you have a leak. Hard on the tranny, and definately not a good thing on a 45% slope.

Andy

The guys i knew that had 440's replaced the steel with reg hyd hose, other wise its a steady issue.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

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