Controlling Vines in Loblolly Plantation

Claybraker · April 26, 2012, 11:41:55 AM

17 year old loblolly plantation on the Georgia coastal plain. We had a third row thinning last year, and the mid-story and vines have responded well. :

I've been doing some basal bark spraying, starting with the Sweetgum (We hates Sweetgum) and the Muscadines using Garlon4, that has been reasonably effective, but I'm at a loss for something to get rid of the Greenbriar vines. My current thinking is using a brushcutter to knock them back a little, and wait for crown closure again.

Any ideas would be welcome.

Texas Ranger · April 26, 2012, 12:55:06 PM

Control burns will do a good job in a plantation of that age. Less chemicals. would need a couple of burns over a couple of years to do the job. Green briar has a tubor in the ground, and is hard to control. Just keep em burned back.

Magicman · April 26, 2012, 03:15:49 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Claybraker. Anyone that hates Sweetgum is a friend of mine.

I too will be interested in Greenbriar control because it has that root "potato" that seems to survive any spraying that I have ever done.

WDH · April 26, 2012, 11:56:49 PM

Like TR said, fire.

Garlon will kill greenbriar. About the only thing that will that is not soil active like Tordon. A 3% solution sprayed on the leaves works, but as this stuff climbs, it is hard to get the herbicide on the leaves. Another option is a basal spray of 25% garlon and 75% diesel with a surfactant (a few squirts of liquid dishwashing soap).

Fire is the best control, but fire is complicated and requires some skill and knowledge to execute.

Magicman · April 28, 2012, 11:00:36 AM

Wisteria can be a real problem, especially around old house sites. Almost as bad as Kudzu. :-\

Claybraker · June 22, 2012, 01:08:07 PM

DanG nab it, did you have to mention Kudzu? I've got a few crowns that have just reared their ugly heads. Not sure how they got there, maybe they came in with the logging equipment last year during the thinning. That's not important. They need to die.

Everything I've read says Picloram is the most effective, but it's not labeled for use around existing loblolly, and if I'm going to add to my chemical weapons inventory, I'd like something that does double duty. Maybe Imazapyr? There's also a lot of stump resprouts from sweetgum (I hates Sweetgum) that were cut during the thinning, I was thinking now would be a good time to hit them with a foliar spray.

All I have for equipment is a backpack sprayer, and a total herbicide burn down is not desired.

A good burning or two is in the future plans, but that won't do much for the Kudzu. TIA.

WDH · June 22, 2012, 09:11:47 PM

If you are judicious with Tordon, you can spray the kudzu and not slop it all over the ground. Just a light spray on the leaves. You should be OK. If you do slop it all around on the ground or on the trunks of nearby trees, you can have some collateral damage. I use Tordon 101 M as a hack-n-squirt treatment, and I am careful to confine it to the cuts in the bark, and I have not had any issues. If you jump on the kudzu now, maybe you can cut it off at the pass.

Sounds like that you are going to get set up to burn this winter. That will do you a world of good. Go ahead and get the fire breaks ready so that you will be good to go when you get the perfect day.

Rocky_Ranger · June 23, 2012, 09:43:07 AM

Imazapyr is the best chemical I've seen for plantations, we used the heck out of it in Arkansas. I was more of a fan of Tordon until I seen the difference in the two.

I'll second the burning too, gott'a love it!

WDH · June 23, 2012, 07:42:09 PM

Does imazapyr work on kudzu?

Claybraker · June 23, 2012, 10:09:32 PM

According to this, it kinda sorta works.
http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/ja/ja_miller049.pdf

I've already accepted the fact it's going to take more than one treatment, probably every year until it's gone. Fortunately, it hasn't gotten well established yet.

tcsmpsi · June 25, 2012, 10:47:29 AM

Well, my experience has been that nothing is a long term 'kill'. My best has been about 5 yrs before the problem becomes notable. But, I figure that is pretty good down here in these parts.

WDH · June 25, 2012, 08:39:08 PM

Texas can be a viney and thorny place. Especially if one is not from there

.

tcsmpsi · June 26, 2012, 06:07:05 AM

Quote from: WDH on June 25, 2012, 08:39:08 PM
Texas can be a viney and thorny place. Especially if one is not from there .

And, sometimes, even if you are. :D

Texas Ranger · June 26, 2012, 07:55:10 AM

It helps deter skallywags and other nefarious creatures. :P

WDH · June 26, 2012, 09:05:16 PM

We couldn't have no Scallywags, that is for sure.

customsawyer · July 08, 2012, 05:50:38 PM

Escort will work on Kudzu almost as well as Tordon with less risk to the pines. The burn is a must as it will help with the seeds on the ground.

GATreeGrower · July 16, 2012, 06:43:59 PM

Quote from: WDH on April 26, 2012, 11:56:49 PM
Like TR said, fire.

Garlon will kill greenbriar. About the only thing that will that is not soil active like Tordon. A 3% solution sprayed on the leaves works, but as this stuff climbs, it is hard to get the herbicide on the leaves. Another option is a basal spray of 25% garlon and 75% diesel with a surfactant (a few squirts of liquid dishwashing soap).

Fire is the best control, but fire is complicated and requires some skill and knowledge to execute.

Isn't diesel illegal to use?

WDH · July 16, 2012, 08:52:38 PM

I am not aware of any law that says that you cannot add diesel to a herbicide mix.

Claybraker · July 16, 2012, 10:10:39 PM

I'm not an expert, but if the label says it's ok, it's prolly ok.

Having said that, I use canola oil. Seems to work pretty good, as long as the bark isn't too corky.

WDH · July 17, 2012, 06:40:17 AM

You can also use crop oil.

Claybraker · July 17, 2012, 12:04:17 PM

Kroger doesn't sell crop oil, but sometimes they'll have canola for $7 a gallon. At the low amount I'm using, the cost difference between it and diesel is no big deal. I use Cide Kick in the mix, so I'm covered on the surfactant thingy.

The basal spraying seemed like a good idea last year right after the thinning, when the equipment had knocked down a lot of the vegetation, but the sweetgum etc have come roaring back, mostly from stump resprouting. I'm trying a glyphosphate/imazapyr foliar spray. Here is a before picture:

I'll take another picture in a month or so.

WDH · July 17, 2012, 08:55:29 PM

Once you get some pine straw on the ground, a prescribed burn will do wonders. You are doing right because you can't let the sweetgum get too big. When it does, it gets unruly and does not behave.

GATreeGrower · July 22, 2012, 10:36:56 PM

It's illegal to dump on the ground, though...it just seems like crop oil or dish liquid as surfactant would wash away a lot easier and not poison the ground

WDH · July 23, 2012, 07:28:19 AM

In the quantity of diesel used in a basal bark spray on trees 6" and less in diameter, it does not poison the soil.

Claybraker · July 23, 2012, 07:48:27 AM

At $15 to 20 a gallon for the mix, dumping it on the ground is not only illegal, it's silly.

Ironically, in the basal technique, something that washes off easily increases the risk of contamination. Diesel or vegetable oil mixes are rain fast immediately after application. I suspect diesel mostly evaporates, which can be a problem in hot weather.

Claybraker · July 23, 2012, 09:26:30 AM

Quote from: WDH on July 23, 2012, 07:28:19 AM
In the quantity of diesel used in a basal bark spray on trees 6" and less in diameter, it does not poison the soil.

I've done some informal experiments on the subject using Garlon and sweetgum as the target species. As the diameter increases, the cost per stem increases, and the likelihood of success decreases. Somewhere around 2" to 3" diameter, it's easier to whack 'em with a hatchet and squirt 'em. Below that diameter, it's hard to give 'em a good whack.

WDH · July 23, 2012, 09:27:23 PM

That is exactly my experience as well. With something like privet that grows in a horrible clump, it is tough to get inside the clump to hack-n-squirt, plus, there are so many stems. This is where the basal spray saves the day as you can stand back several feet and not have to get tangled in the greenbriar

.

Pullinchips · July 28, 2012, 05:08:18 PM

Quote from: GATreeGrower on July 16, 2012, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: WDH on April 26, 2012, 11:56:49 PM
Like TR said, fire.

Garlon will kill greenbriar. About the only thing that will that is not soil active like Tordon. A 3% solution sprayed on the leaves works, but as this stuff climbs, it is hard to get the herbicide on the leaves. Another option is a basal spray of 25% garlon and 75% diesel with a surfactant (a few squirts of liquid dishwashing soap).

Fire is the best control, but fire is complicated and requires some skill and knowledge to execute.
Isn't diesel illegal to use?

NO not for herbicie use etc, if its labled for use than its legal to tank mix. Now you can't put str8 deisel in your sprayer and spray weeds with it around your house, but forestry is an AG industry and is thus protected and has certain exemptions. BUT almost every herbicide is labled to tank mix with deisel, but as with anything READ your lable if its there under your application its legal.

I am a licensed federal applicator, but take this info as you like. I would spray it on my lands i manage and they are public lands, but i would stick to label doses and applications.

WDH · July 28, 2012, 08:18:14 PM

The tank mix of 25% Garlon and 75% Diesel for the basal spray that I use is a Label prescription.

Pullinchips · July 28, 2012, 08:58:27 PM

Yea basil spray applications almost always use high deisel concentration and herbicide of choice, but i think garlon is the old stand by. The deisel stays and penetrates as well as burns through the cambium allowing the herbicide a better in, into the plant or tree.

But you have a few years on me so im not telling you anything you dont know!

customsawyer · July 29, 2012, 05:54:03 PM

Please keep in mind that Garlon dissipates at 91 degrees. Please don't get to close to cotton fields. If it dissipates it is hard to keep on site.

GATreeGrower · August 05, 2012, 10:01:47 PM

Quote from: Pullinchips on July 28, 2012, 05:08:18 PM
Quote from: GATreeGrower on July 16, 2012, 06:43:59 PM
Quote from: WDH on April 26, 2012, 11:56:49 PM
Like TR said, fire.

Garlon will kill greenbriar. About the only thing that will that is not soil active like Tordon. A 3% solution sprayed on the leaves works, but as this stuff climbs, it is hard to get the herbicide on the leaves. Another option is a basal spray of 25% garlon and 75% diesel with a surfactant (a few squirts of liquid dishwashing soap).

Fire is the best control, but fire is complicated and requires some skill and knowledge to execute.
Isn't diesel illegal to use?

NO not for herbicie use etc, if its labled for use than its legal to tank mix. Now you can't put str8 deisel in your sprayer and spray weeds with it around your house, but forestry is an AG industry and is thus protected and has certain exemptions. BUT almost every herbicide is labled to tank mix with deisel, but as with anything READ your lable if its there under your application its legal.

I am a licensed federal applicator, but take this info as you like. I would spray it on my lands i manage and they are public lands, but i would stick to label doses and applications.

Cool, thank you