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Started by dgdrls, April 18, 2012, 09:11:26 PM

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dgdrls

Helping to cut some tree's for a Moto-X track.
Will save some hard maple for the mill,
but am stumped on these logs, I have an idea, but not certain
These are in Central NY.

Thanks

DGDrls


  

  

 

Okrafarmer

I'll be interested to see what the foresters and others say. My first glance at the first picture, I thought black cherry, but then it didn't really look like that, and the farther down the pictures I went, the more it looked like some kind of oak to me.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

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John Mc

It does not look like black cherry bark to me.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Okrafarmer

Quote from: John Mc on April 18, 2012, 09:58:15 PM
It does not look like black cherry bark to me.

Yes, after my first glance, it didn't to me either.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

celliott

How about a picture of the bud and the twig? Often times that can be much more helpful in ID'ing a tree than the bark\cross section.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
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265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

dgdrls

I'll see if I can get some additional info/ buds, twigs,

Thanks
DGDrls

Ron Wenrich

Elm.  That's an ID of what the wood looks like.  Black cherry doesn't have the heavy growth rings.  Neither does hickory. 

When I took my first dendro class, the prof used to point out bark, tree form, buds and leaves.  We used to ID trees using the leaves.  Then came October and leaf drop.  So, we learned to ID trees using tree form and bark. 

That worked pretty good until I got my first job in a sawmill.  I was the log scaler.  No more tree form, just bark and wood.  Now, as a sawyer, I don't even get the bark. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

ArborJake

 The bark on that tree looks alot like Native Red Maple that grow's around here but not shure about the heart?
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

WDH

It is red hickory, Carya ovalis.  Some consider it a scaly barked variety of pignut hickory, Carya glabra.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

Quote from: WDH on April 19, 2012, 09:05:35 AM
It is red hickory, Carya ovalis.  Some consider it a scaly barked variety of pignut hickory, Carya glabra.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on April 19, 2012, 06:50:09 AM
Elm.  That's an ID of what the wood looks like.  Black cherry doesn't have the heavy growth rings.  Neither does hickory. 

Uh-oh.  ???
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

The thickness and color of the inner bark still lead me to red hickory, although Ron has a lot more experience with logs in that area of the country.  Here is how to solve the problem: 

If it is elm, then the latewood pores will be arranged in distinct wavy bands.  If it is hickory, the parenchyma in the latewood will be apotracheal, that is, it is not singularly associated with the latewood pores, but is more random in distribution, but the latewood pores are more scattered and never arranged in wavy bands.

So, to settle this question, a close up pic of the end grain will tell the tale.  It is all about having the right information  :).  Sometimes a pic of only one feature is not enough information to be definitive about an ID.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dodgy Loner

I believe that is in a hickory as well. The bark is just way to thick to be an elm. I would call it a pignut hickory, because I have seen too much variation between red and pignut hickories to separate the two as species. I think it's just one species with a high degree of variability.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Ron Wenrich

What's it smell like?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

LeeB

My first thought was hickory, but I'm by no means an expert.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

SwampDonkey

I was thinking something related to walnuts and hickories. The only elm up my way is American, which is a white elm. So I do not see the other elms in the south.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

Dodgy,

I learned it as red hickory back in the dark ages.  Since then, it has been considered a variety of pignut hickory.  I have seen a lot of it with 7 leaflets whereas the tried and true tight-barked pignut usually has 5 leaflets.  I guess pignut hickory has many faces.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dgdrls

OK guys here is a little more ammo,
Also, the wood seems very stringy/fibrous in the longitudinal section,
Tree was a triple stem.
DGDrls



  

  

  

Okrafarmer

Probably all descended from the same ancestors, just like Chihuahuas and Great Danes both come from wolves.
Quote from: WDH on April 19, 2012, 09:15:05 PM
Dodgy,

I learned it as red hickory back in the dark ages.  Since then, it has been considered a variety of pignut hickory.  I have seen a lot of it with 7 leaflets whereas the tried and true tight-barked pignut usually has 5 leaflets.  I guess pignut hickory has many faces.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

WDH

Definitely hickory.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

Yes I would agree. And as a side note, that upper bark there has traits of young trees and upper limb bark of butternut (probably walnut to). The buds aren't as big, but sure can see traits. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

dgdrls

Thank you gentlemen, 
Ron W, my Conservation class in H.S. was also taught
the same way with winter tree I.D.

DGDrls

Dodgy Loner

Oh yeah, those twigs are 100% a confirmation. You've got hickory. That second bark pic sure looks like a pure pignut, but as WDH noted, many dendrologists would say that the bark in the first pic is more typical of red hickory. Hence my propensity to lump them all together! :D
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

doctorb

As an interested bystander to all this tree knowledge, I know how to tell the difference between hickory and elm.  Cut a 20" round and swing a splitting maul at it.  If it splits, it's hickory.  If the maul bounces off, it's elm.  Knew I could help! ;)
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Dodgy Loner

Haha, that's one indicator :). Just to complicate matters, though, I've had some hickory firewood that gave a hydraulic splitter a workout!
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on April 20, 2012, 03:31:50 PM
Haha, that's one indicator :). Just to complicate matters, though, I've had some hickory firewood that gave a hydraulic splitter a workout!

Yes, that is my experience too. They are both tough splitters.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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