circle mill blade question

[Tripp]

After setting up a new power unit I decided to go over all of the adjustments on my Bellsaw. I have noticed lately when lightly starting a cut on a log it sounded like the blade was not contacting the log evenly. I First suspected a bent arbor, but a check with a dial indicator shows that the arbor is ok. After clamping a piece of wood to the guide and spinning the blade by hand I have one tooth that is very high and a few others that are moderately high. All in the same area. The puzzling thing is all of these teeth are considerably shorter than the others. Tried switching shanks and tips. same problem. I filed down the high blade tips to get the saw to contact the wood evenly, but something is not right. I am using a Dexter file guide to sharpen the saw and all the tip angles look good. The saw doc was a little perplexed by my problem.

Time for a new saw?

Tripp

[steamsawyer]

Don't give up yet. New blades cost too much.

Are all your teeth new from the same box? Take out a short one and a long one and lay them side by side for a comparison. You may have a mix of different style teeth. Better yet, pick a new box bits and change them all out at one time. :-\

Alan

[Tripp]

Unfortunately all the teeth are from the same box. I have been running them for quite a while. Might be a good idea to swap them out for new ones and see if I have the same problem.


Tripp

[apm]

If new teeth don't solve your problem, and I'm betting they will, maybe you could take all of the teeth and the shanks out and do the same test again with the block clamped on the guides. If you're using the 2-1/2 or 3 style tooth, the shoulder on the saw stops the tooth as you rock it in. If a couple of shoulders were too high, on the saw itself, it sounds like that could cause the condition you're describing. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Its not a good idea to take out all the shanks.  Quite often, when you swap shanks out, your saw will need hammered.  That's because not all the shanks will have the same tension, especially after being used for awhile.  Some will fit tighter than others.  I always keep the same shanks in the same sockets until its time to toss the shanks and start new.  Then, I replace the shanks and have the saw hammered.  Just a precautionary thing.

Teeth are probably the problem, but so could your approaching speed.  You should be easing into your cut, and not slamming into the log.  I am nearly stopped before I get into the log. 

I'm not sure I can envision teeth that are short, but are high.  That sounds like the socket wasn't cut right, but you would have noticed that before.  Sometimes the tooth and the shank aren't lined up quite right.  That can cause all sorts of problems and lots of problems.

How's it saw when you're in the cut?  Is your lumber real rough?

[Tripp]

Put in a new set of teeth. The condition is much better. The teeth are still high in the same sockets but not near as much as the old set. Whatever I have going on sharpening seems to worsen the problem. The blade seems adequate with a new set of teeth, but definately not perfect. I will try it and see what happens over time as I use it and sharpen it.

Tripp

[snowshoveler]

Hi Tripp...
Could you post a picture of your sharpener and perhaps a picture of it being used.
Well maybe not being used but put it on the blade and show us how you use it.
Regards Chris

[b dukes]

Tripp,

          I would like to see a picture of the dexter file guide also , I have been thinking about buying one.  I have something odd going on with my blade as well.  I had the blade hammered with new shanks and bits installed at the local saw shop , I think it cost about 250.00 but on a few of my shanks the paint is rubbed off on the edge ,kinda shiny now , I will take some pics in the morning. I haven't cut that much with it though. What little I have cut , the boards are coming off straight , I can stay within a 1/16 th. on 12 ft.

[Tripp]

I will get a few pics of the dexter tomorrow. I have been really pleased with it.

Tripp

[Ron Wenrich]

Collars can be an area of concern.  Some guys tighten their collars too tight.  If you do, you can collapse the collar.  I kick my wrench on.  I heard of guys who put bars on their wrench and some hammered them tight.  That's something you don't do. 

[bandmiller2]

Tripper,did this problem come on suddenly or has it been this way for a wile?Have you checked closely for a fine crack in the plate.Does your saw fit snug on the arbor[no play].The true Belsaw saw has a smaller center hole than the standard 2" headsaw.Standard 2" hole saws can be used on a belsaw arbor but only with an adpter bushing,if you have that system try remounting your saw.Are the offending shanks the same as the outhers.Bits are fordged then ground and are not always perfect.If everything checkes out I'd clamp a piece of sticking to the mill and turn the saw by hand and see how high those teeth are then file them so their the same as the rest. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Simonds makes regular bits and some a little longer,they didn't get mixed did they?I have seen odd bits in a box. Frank C.

[jimparamedic]

   I use a 3-8 saw and I had a saw that a few of the holders were loose and over time hammered the bit stop just alittle and changed the pitch on those teeth. Also the teeth and holders should roll in with the wrench takes some force but no cheater pipe. If that much forse is used it will distort the saw plate. I dip mine teeth and holders in oil before putting them in the plate.Messy but seems to work. I check holders teeth and plate at least before I use it for the day. just to make sure things are as they should be.

[Ron Wenrich]

I spray my saw with Blue Creaper before I pull my teeth.  It makes it a lot easier, and there isn't any mess.  I used to use diesel. 

[Tripp]

Thanks for all the information. Lots of things to check. When I installed a new set of teeth my problem lessened. I am thinking that there is a possibility that a couple of the tooth cutouts on the blade may be a bit wider causing a different angle on the bits. I have noticed, when sharpening, My file guide has been a bit tighter on about a third of the blade. Not sure yet if it corresponds with the problem area on the blade.  I will say, this is a very old saw. When I took it in to be hammered a few years ago they said it was ancient.

Tripp

[Tripp]

Here are a couple of pictures of the Dexter.

  

 

[bandmiller2]

Sometimes the saws shoulders [behind the bit] get pounded out a little especially on older saws that tend to have softer steel than the later ones.Usally oversized shanks can keep them tight but changes the angle slightly.Many saws have the date stamped near the arbor,I have a 44" Simonds as old as I am and a Diston 48" older. Frank C.

[snowshoveler]

Well I see your trouble right away.
That file guide is nothing but a problem for you.
You should send it right to me, I will look after it for you.
Kidding...I think it looks like a quality tool.
As far as the tooth problem,not sure.
Regards Chris

[Joe Lallande]

Tripp, where did you find the Dexter file guide? I did a search on the net and all I could find was a chainsaw guide.  thanks.

[snowshoveler]

I just googled the dexter guide and it brought me right back here.
Is it possible to get 1 of those in Canada.
Looks simple and easy to use.
Chris
PS don't mean to hijack the thread.

[bandmiller2]

Shoveler,call Bruce Dexter 1-802-626-9027 sawmill tool and service co. He is in Lyndonville Vt. spitting distance to Canada.He's the best hammersmith I know of and will repair saws should you ever need it. Frank C.

[Tripp]

Frank,
Thanks for posting the info on Bruce Dexter. When I ordered my file guide a couple of years ago I was impressed with the way he did business. He shipped me a file guide and said, if you like it send me a check, if you do not like it, send it back. Needless to say, I sent him a check. It works well.

Tripp

[ALWOL]

   Back to the blade issue, did this problem develop suddenly, or over a period of time? The fact that the new bits lessened the problem indicates a problem with the sockets, but the fact that your saw is the newer double-circle style, (by the pic of the Dexter file guide) lessens the chance of damaged shoulders.
   I would tend to suspect a damaged or "egged" saw plate, or a problem with how the saw hangs on the mandrel. It would be a good idea to rotate the saw 180 degrees on the lug pins, and recheck the eccentricty of it.

[Tripp]

ALWOL,

The problem has developed over the past year. I looks like my problem is in an area where the blade was propped up against a wall and sitting on the ground. There is some pitting on the blade, which thins it, in that area. The teeth sit at a marginally wider angle in those sockets, but still tight. I may just need to hand file those teeth to keep them the same lenght as the others.

Good idea about shifting the saw on the mandrel. It could make a difference. I will let you know.

Tripp

[bandmiller2]

Tripp,rereading this post probibly where the saw rested in the soil you got some rust under the shanks and bits.Have you removed them and cleaned the socket? Outher than that if filed to match the outher bits would be the alternative. Frank C.