Clearing for a house lot.... How do you decide which trees NOT to cut?

[Piston]

I will be starting to clear my land in Central NH in a few weeks.  The section that I will be clearing is about 2 acres and is currently unmaintained forest land.  It is mostly pines about 10"-16" DBH, as well as mixed hardwoods right on the edge of the pine stand.  There is a stone wall separating the pines and hardwoods, and we intend to build a home on either side of this stone wall, not sure which yet. 

I will be clearing with a John Deere 410 and my little 45hp Kubota with grapple.  My wife and I want an open site, but we don't want it to be 'sterile' in a sense where we knock down every tree in a 2 acre area, and then immediately go to thick forest again. 

So, how do you guys decide on which trees to leave?  I had the county forester up on the land a couple years ago and he gave me some tips which I will go by, but I am curious if you could all give me some input based on your experience. 

One thing is for sure, we both hate raking leaves, and I don't want any trees close enough to the house to fall on the house, so that narrows it down a bit.  I was thinking of picking a few larger 'clumps' of trees and leaving them, and then taking some time to see what the lot looks like, and decide if we want them down or not. 

I was thinking of keeping some hardwoods to the south of the house to help shade in the summer and allow sun in the winter. 

What are some considerations you guys think about when clearing a forested site?  It's tough to picture what the site will look like without trees in the way, when it's currently covered in trees. 

Here is a general sketch of the land layout, tough to see, but it came from this thread and it's all I have so far, I'll try to post more pics tomorrow.  (The white box is the 2 acre area we would like to build on)
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=52393.0

[Tree Feller]

I also built a home on two acres of mostly hardwood trees...Dogwood, Post Oak, Hickory and Elm with several Eastern Red Cedars, too.

I cleared out the trees from the building site and the drive. I left most everything else.

Over the 14 years we have been in the house, I've had several trees die and have removed a few others. A 30' x 20' woodworking shop took out some. A backyard pool took some others and this winter, I cleared out quite a few more for a vegetable garden.

So, I would suggest leaving more trees than you actually desire. Attrition will take some of them and projects will consume some more. Eventually, if you are patient, you will arrive at a "just right" landscape. Meanwhile, you may have to rake more leaves than you want to.   ;)

[Woodhauler]

Cut all the dripping pine trees! They are a mess around a house/lawn/living area! I left 4-6 on my lawn and wish i never did!

[wheelinguy]

I agree with woodhauler and treefeller, get rid of the pines, leave trees than you think you should.  When we built our house we left a buffer of pines between us and the neighbors property, 6 years in we cut them down and itt was one of the best decisions we ever made.  Shortly after we cut those pines out a wind storm took out 13 or so of the hardwooods we had tried to save.  Then like treefeller we lost some to the woodshop, and every year more come down on their own. 

[thecfarm]

I would cut the white pine too. I have seen too many snap off about 10 feet high on my land. I would try to leave any oak. I try to leave what I can,red oak in my case. Wild life likes the arcorns. I have about acre that there's hardly anything less than 4 inches growing. I keep the underbrush down with a cheapy push mower.I would go through it and cut down the ones that don't look good.

[Magicman]

You are spot on about leaving the trees on the South side.  Hickories and Elms are deep rooted and very unlikely to fall.  Avoid dirt work around any of the trees that might harm the feeder roots.

I would also tend to leave more trees than you eventually want because you could have some unexpected mortalities.  Plus, once they come down, they can't be put back.

[jdonovan]

I'd get a layout from your surveyor on the ground of the house, driveway, drain-filed locations. You know you must clear them 100% so start there... this will also provide open space if you want to have a work area or to act as a landing for logs you want to keep.

Driveway I would clear at least 20' wide.. .I prefer 25-30'. That will give you an edge to push snow on to, as well as have some just off the driveway area to allow cars to pass, and give you some grass on the driveway edges.

House site. I prefer not to have any tall trees very close to the house. I would clear 100% out to about 50 feet around the site. The next 50-150 feet I would take all the undesirable trees. Pines, deformed, diseased, steep leaner, wide crotches, or any trees you don't want getting any bigger than they are.

This will now leave you with a thinned area in the 50-150 range. You and the family will have to decide how much of a forest, how close to the house you want.

Once you decide what you are going to keep, establish an equipment exclusion zone. Put up stakes, and bright rope/flags to keep the builder and his crews out of this area with their equipment. If you don't 'fence' this area off they WILL run heavy equipment in there and a year or two later you'll start to have die off from roots getting damaged during construction.

[Texas Ranger]

What MM said, leave more than you think you want to keep.  Here in Texas in piney woods we recommend leaving twice as many as you really want to keep.  You will lose some in the building process, power lines, water lines, septic lines, etc.  You will have some construction damage as well, barked pines lead to bark beetles.  Barked hardwood lead to rot.

[Piston]

Thanks for the good advice from everyone.   ;D

The hardest part for me now, is to decide what I want to keep!  I've walked around the land a hundred times second guessing where I want to clear.  I keep telling my wife I don't want to take down any of the trees, but realistically I know I have to  :D

I envision the lot eventually having a decent sized lawn to it, with some scattered 'groups' of hardwoods, and I'd like to eventually have a field on the outskirts, sort of along the driveway on the south side of the driveway, although I know a field is pretty far away at this point.  I know I'm gonna have to take down a lot of trees for those things, but it's just hard to "picture". 
My father is gonna help me clear and he's cleared lots before and has a pretty good 'eye' for those things so I'll trust his judgement as well. 

I'll try posting some pics now. 

[DeerMeadowFarm]

Jdonavan gave you the most complete advice here IMHO. First you need to know where your house, driveway, well, and septic are going to be and then clear them 100%. I agree with his driveway width suggestions and his thinning suggestions. Trees that can hit the house should go as well. Remember, you'll most likely live there for a long time; plant trees: the kind you want and where you want them. Make a point of doing so each year; they'll grow faster than you'd think!

[Piston]

These pics are posted in a sense of where the driveway will begin, and ending at where the building lot will be cleared, for the most part anyways  :D



I apologize for posting so many pics before  ;D  Sometimes I go a little overboard with too much information.  I figured the more examples of the trees the better, but I understand how that can make it more confusing  :D  Also, I didn't think of the guys with dial up so I've edited this post. 


I'll leave out the pics of where the driveway will be coming in, since I have another thread on "putting in an 800' driveway" which you guys have answered many questions on already, and helped me a lot in the process.  Also, there are more pics in my album under "land" if anyone wants to see more. 

There are two possible sites that I'm planning on building the house, both within the 2 acre area that I've outlined in the google earth snapshot on my first post. 

They are both roughly equal as far as grade and topography go.  The site to the North of my stone wall is more hardwoods, whereas the site just on the other side is all pines, must have been an abandoned field at one point.  There are piles of rocks that the old farmers have piled up which are really pretty impressive when you think about the lack of machinery they had.  I learned a lot about my land by reading the book "Reading the Forested Landscape", very helpful book for me.

Anyways, the 'more hardwoods' side of the stone wall is where I will start clearing first, as it is my preferred site for now.  Here are a couple pics from that site.



  

 


The other side of the stone walls is where it is almost all pines.



  

  

 

[Andrew Lawrence]

Thanks for ALL the photos.  Keep in mind septic layout, this with house footprint will likely give you a good starting point.

[beenthere]

 :
Would be great if you would pick about 5 of them and interlace some dialogue with each so we get an idea where/what your lot may be cleared. thanks, as it would be easier for us. ;)

[Raider Bill]

In my case I wish I hadn't cleared as many as I did. It was easy to get carried away with the dozer. Hind sight is 20-20 lesson learned but too late.

[snowstorm]

i have been moving dirt for the last 25yrs so i have been asked this question at least a 100 times. for the driveway as least 30' wide. so you end up with a 12' wide road or wider if you want plus slope the edges or ditich. you have to keep the water out of the subgrade. how big will the house be?? full foundation? walkout in it? i always tell them to cut what you think is enought then cut twice as many. the more that are in the way when someone digs for the foundation the more it will cost you. because he may have to move dirt twice. there may be several 100 yards coming out of the ground it has to go somewhere. sometimes you cant dig from bolth sides so you make one pass then move that pile then finish. the south side needs to be  as open as you can get the more sun the better. think of free heat in the winter so lots of windows on the south. that little hoe you have can do some things but big stumps rocks and digging the foundation you might want to hire out. there is a lot more to it than most think. at the very least you would need a transit. i have laser grade control on my excavator makes it much easier

[Ron Scott]

Draft a base site plan to scale including your access road, home, and out buildings with an overlay of your vegetation to determine what has to be removed for proper constuction of the wanted facilities. As stated above remove enough to allow for ease of constuction and site maintenance after construction.

Select "leave trees" to retain site aesthetics and a diversity of fall colors. Consider the trees characteristics of shape, color, texture, size, age, condition,etc. to help in the natural landscaping of your site.

[snowstorm]

one thing i left out.... get the soil test done first.....i assume nh is somewhat the same as maine as to how they do there soil test. make sure you are there when he dose it. and know where your house will be. you dont want to end up pumping the septic up hill. it works fine but costs a lot more

[Autocar]

When we built our house I cut just enough so the foundation could be poured. After I had the house done we had a pretty good thunder storm and I had two trees hitting the over hang of the house so I cut those two. I have a 16 inch red oak four inches off the over hang and will have to cut in in time. We have so much shade that the air cinditioner dosen't kick on till five when the sun can travel over to the septic tank feild. But with just the two of use we don't have much water useage so I planted the leach feild with trees which our thirty feet tall now. One thinfg you want to do for sure cut any large tree that lays in the direction of house second keep the cement trucks on the drive way, don't compact the dirt or your trees will die off. Hardmaple can take alot so keep them for sure. Its a lot easyer to cut them after your house is up, but impossible to get them back if you cut them now. I would keep them all if it was my place  ;D

[2308500]

keep in mind that after you are done thinning, you will want to create some lawn area around the trees that are left

in my experience (20 years) the base of these trees may be at a higher elevation than where you wish your lawn to be in this case  grading will harm roots    or

they will be at a lower elevation than the future lawn in which case bringing fill more than a few inches up around a tree will probably kill it in the next 5 or 6 years.

at least thats the way it works in western nova scotia

i have put in many lawns including my own and this is almost always the case.
in my situation i wound up cutting everything and grinding or removing the stumps from the lawn

[Piston]

I edited my post above so there are less pics for yas  ;D

Thanks for the great suggestions and advice, you've given me some good things to think about that well....I didn't think about before  :D

As far as marking the trees I want to leave, what should I use for that?  If I use spray paint, will it be visible on the tree for years or will it go away after a year or so? 
Should I use ribbon?  That seems like the most logical to use. 

[OntarioAl]

Piston
You have recieved lots of excellant advice.
I live in a rural municipality and the location of my well and the subsiquent positioning of the septic field (down grade to the southwest of the house while the well is upgrade north east of the house) set the location of my home.
Snowstorm is right a gravity operated septic system is the way to go.
Once the water systems were taken care of the positioning of thhe driveway and buried electrical service was easy.
I then decided which trees and their location to my home were retained,
Since I live in the boreal forest I removed all the trembling aspen and balsam fir within 250 ft of my home I retained some mature White spruce and Jackpine to the east and north coming within 125 of my home (looks very park like)
To the south and west it is mainly lawn (septic field) with some planted Bur Oak and Silver Maple.
I have about 2 acres of lawn to keep cut but it keeps it open and airy which helps discourage black flies amoung other flying pests of the north woods,
Hope this helps
Al

[Piston]

I have about 2 acres of lawn to keep cut but it keeps it open and airy which helps discourage black flies amoung other flying pests of the north woods,
Hope this helps
Al

Al,
I've thought a lot about the flying insects issue.  Do you think you get a lot less bugs around the house with the less trees/more grass?  This is also one of my concerns that I actually forgot to post, didn't even think of it until you reminded me  ;D
In the spring time the may flies can be horrible up there, in the summer time the horseflies can be horrible up there, will clearing more trees and planting more lawn help this? 
In some of the things I read, I found that horse flies live in the pine needles on the forest floor, any idea if this is true?

[Holmes]

 You may want to consider the views you can get from your house location. Can you look from the top of a hill, or down a valley or at a mountain?

[Andrew Lawrence]

I like ribbon alot . I have different colors for property line pink,wet area blue, road in red and so on.  Can be adjusted as needed, gives me a better idea as I look at the site from different angles.

[Ron Scott]

Definitely consider the best scenic views when deciding the location of the home, especially if you will be on higher elevations.

I'd also use ribbon, especially in the initial planning since it can easily be removed without leaving a long term visual impact.

[Piston]

You may want to consider the views you can get from your house location. Can you look from the top of a hill, or down a valley or at a mountain?

That's another part of my dilemma between the two house spots I've picked out.  The spot that is more in the hardwoods would have more of a view of the mountains/valley, about 230 degree view or so, which I would love.  The only downside of that is the lot drops off fairly quickly at that point, which means I wouldn't have much of a backyard.  Also, I know how easy sound travels on a quiet night in the mountains, and I think if I had a fully open view, I may hear other people/cars easier, and vice versa.

The spot in the pines is a little further from the drop off part.  This would mean I'd have less of a view, maybe only 60-120 degrees or so, however we'd have a nice backyard, and wouldn't have to worry as much about sound traveling.  I might be looking into this a little too deep but those are some of the things I think about. 

I think I'll have a lot better idea and much stronger preference as to where to put the house once I get some trees down and can picture it a little better. 

Andrew, thanks for the suggestions for the different colors, I'll pick up some tape at tractor supply on my way up.

[Piston]

I should mention that the views are mainly to the North.  The closer I get to the 'dropoff' it becomes more of a view from the West, to the North, to the East, and maybe Southeast a little bit. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a view to the south, that is a whole nother topic  :D  I'm struggling with good views to the north, but the desire for passive solar to the south.... I never thought there would be so many decisions to make!  And I haven't even STARTED on the house yet  :D :D :D

[wheelinguy]

More lawn does equal  less flying-biting insects.  Before we removed the big  stand of pines around our house the black flies and other nasties would literally be bouncing off the truck windows trying to get at you when you pulled in the yard.  Now if you stay out of the shade of the big trees your pretty safe.  If you are going to have a steep driveway cut a wider swath of trees, this will allow more sun in to thaw it sooner and help any sand you put onthe ice to get more bite (with the suns help).  Also if you happen to slip off the driveway in the truck you will be less apt to hit a tree, trust me on this one we have a steep driveway and I may have been off it more than once on icy days.

[jdonovan]

As far as marking the trees I want to leave, what should I use for that?  If I use spray paint, will it be visible on the tree for years or will it go away after a year or so? 
Should I use ribbon? 

Depends how long you need the marks to stay.
Spray paint will fade in time, but it takes a long time... if you do use this method paint the 'back' as viewed from the house.
Ribbon is good, but only lasts a year or two, less if the critters chew on it.

Most celphones have GPS apps... if you're in need of < 10' precision, that will work fine, and then you have a map of coordinates in case the markings go away.

[g_man]

I am in the Littleton area just north of your new place. In my experience you get far far fewer bugs in a large cleared area that is mowed. Even partial shade invites black flts, mosquitoes, and the worst, deer flys. If it is not mowed they stay in the damp grass and the shade it offers.
You might also want to think about the value, or lack there of,of  shade to the south. In the summer the sun is very high. To be effective at shading the house the trees need to be pretty close. In the winter the sun is very low. It's warming effect is very welcome so you need the trees far away to prevent shading. We prefer to have it wide open to the south. We dont have that much really hot weather but we do have a lot of cold weather and every ray of sun on the house and in the window is a blessing.

[Magicman]

Sure views are important, and maintaining views from certain areas is OK but to me for example, the passive solar to the South is more important.  You also my have the direction of the prevailing wind that you want to either maintain by not cutting or eliminate by cutting.

I would use ribbon, and as I said earlier, I would cut "too few" at first.  I would analyze each tree and look at split trees (forked) limbs, and any possible defects.  Also take particular care and not knock the bark off of any trees. 

[WDH]

That stone wall is a unique and beautiful feature of the site.  I would take it into consideration so that your chosen location features the wall in the landscape. 

[thecfarm]

We put our house in for the view. I just felt we was going to live here for years might as well see something. Not much sun comes into our house,but that is also good in the summer months. Some years the air conditioner is only used for a week. By the way I run my power under ground to the house the last 100 feet. Just a thought too,I have no idea how your power company is but you may want to get them there for a plan. Cost me $5000 for 500 feet. Another idea too,a good idea to put your oil fill by where you have to clear snow. One less path you will need. Remember too the well has to be so many feet from your septic.

[Jim_Rogers]

When my logger and I used to clear house lots for builders we'd wait till the surveyor would layout the house corners and the center line of the driveway. He's also layout the septic area and the reserve area. I haven't seen anyone mention the reserve area but we'd clear that as well up front as it would need to be done some day anyhow. And it's cheaper to take a tree down now then after the house is built.

The builder would establish a ring around the house corners and say take down everything within X number of feet from the house. And usually a different X number of feet from around the septic and reserve area.

He would also tell us how wide to make the driveway.

We would start by thinning out all the small stuff and get the lot open so that we could drive around it with my backhoe to haul out the wood. We'd cut the firewood usually to 4' lengths to split and dry in 4' pieces.

We label the "ring" around each spot with ribbon. And say everything inside this ring comes down. This saves tagging every tree. And with ribbon around the tree you can see each one from wherever you stand in the lot.

After we had most of them down, or before we were done, we'd ask that the future home owner if it as a custom build, come and mark any trees that they wanted down, as well. They'd have a different color ribbon so we'd know who marked it.

We also look at all the trees left standing after we were about done. Any tree leaning in would be removed as it will grow 10 times faster and larger now that the space is opened up to the sunlight and less competition for water with the roots.

As mentioned before we also look around the perimeter ring for the "Ds" that is dead, deformed, deceased and sometimes the dominate ones and take them out.

We would haul all the logs out and stack them roadside for the logging truck or I'd haul them with my dump truck or flatbed trailer.

I'd carry the tops over to the chipper and we'd chip the brush there only leaving a yard of short stumps as most builders used excavators to remove the stumps and didn't need tall ones to push over with a bulldozer.

When harvesting trees to make logs for milling the old timer told me to set my chainsaw on the ground; roll it onto it's side, and start cutting. That's how short he wanted to see my pine stumps.

Piston, I'm available if you want me to come up some morning or afternoon to look at your lot with you.

Jim Rogers 

[Piston]

Every time I've checked this post I've read some more extremely good information.  I just want to thank everyone for giving me some GREAT advice.  Lots of things I never would have thought of were brought up. 

It's great to be able to get so many different views and opinions from you guys.  It really is helpful.  ;D

[OntarioAl]

Piston
I see several others agree that an expanse of lawn helps keep the bugs at bay.
Nothing gives me greater pleasure in the bug wars then when the dragonflies show up. They snag the deer and horse flies out of the air then land and chow down....yessss!
How can you can tell that I have been an unwilling donor of blood and flesh to those demon flies over the years.
Al

[Piston]

Is there a specific type of tree that may or may not attract the flying pests?  Or is it mostly just the shade of the trees as mentioned?

[WDH]

Whatever you do, then, do not leave any black locust  :D.

[pineywoods]

Whatever you do, then, do not leave any black locust  :D.

could do worse and leave honey locust.. :

[WDH]

That is true.  Then the plague of locusts would be thorny :D.

[Piston]

Piston, I'm available if you want me to come up some morning or afternoon to look at your lot with you.

Jim Rogers

....sent you an email Jim  ;D