Black Tupelo-- Black Gum-- Sour Gum--

[Okrafarmer]

We just got a whack of the stuff. There is no major market for it in this area-- it is a rather rare tree for us, but we just took down 8 in one yard.  I expect we will sell most of them for pallet logs (can't get more than $175/k for them around here, that I know of). But I thought I might keep a couple of the best ones to mill myself-- you know, to add to my list of species I've done, that kind of thing. So-- any advice, suggestions, jokes, snide remarks?

[Magicman]

That was the species of choice for making dough bowls.

[Okrafarmer]

In which case, we really wouldn't mill it, would we?

[ellmoe]

   Not that you're likely to find this need in the current market, but house movers down here like timbers made from them. They like the strength to weight ratio.

Mark

[WDH]

It has spiral grain like elm so it is very hard to split.  You will likely get a good bit of warp and twist, so as much quarter sawn boards as you can saw will help.  It seems that in spiral grain trees, the first few flat sawn boards from the outside of the log are the worst actors.

[Magicman]

Dough Bowl makers would slab it and then store it away in the top of the barn and in a couple of years  it would be retrieved.  Those slabs that had not misbehaved were candidates for a bowl.

I do not recall but one instance where I sawed Tupelo Gum for lumber and I do not remember what it looked like.

[thurlow]

Black gum is a different species than sour/Tupelo, isn't it?  Maybe it's a regional thing...........Around 'here', black gum was the wood of choice for wagon beds, sideboards, spokes, etc, because of its toughness.  Not a lot of wagon beds, sideboards, spokes still in use.  :(

[Magicman]

Yes, they are a different species, but surely they are very closely related
. 
Water Tupelo, tupelogum, sourwood, is "Nyssa aquatica".

Black Gum, sour gum, pepperidge, is Nyssa sylvatica Marsh.

Both have similar leaves and seed with berries.  The wood is very similar with an interlocking grain.  I guess the fact that they grow in different environments separates them somewhat.  The Tupelo Gum is a swamp/wetland variety and Black Gum grows in hilly country.

[Sprucegum]

I just read an old book (historical fiction) wherein they claimed that Black gum was impervious to lightening. In this instance the lightening bounced off the tree and struck the mean old dude without harming the two innocents riding beside him. And that's an important fact whether it's true or not  :P

[Magicman]

And I knew that "mean old dude".   

He was the one that cross pollinated the gums and produced Sweetgum !!!

I hates Sweetgum.

[thurlow]

I hates Sweetgum.

Awwwwwww man; sweetgum is the wood of choice for laths (probably called purlins in other places); onliest thing is............they need to be nailed up within a day or two of sawing them.  They hold the nails really good...........

[Okrafarmer]

Sourwood is not a Tupelo. It is a seperate species, although the leaves and bark bare a slight resemblance to it. We have a lot of sourwood around here on the high ground. The two Tupelos, I believe, from Peterson's Guide to Eastern Trees, can be distinguished by the leaves. Black gum / Black Tupelo / Sour Gum has smooth edged leaves, and Water Tupelo has some wavy teeth on the leaves. These trees were of the smooth edged variety.

[Okrafarmer]

Well, maybe I will try a little quartersawing, then. I've never set out to quartersaw anything yet, but this sounds like the right time.

[WDH]

The Tupelo Gum is a swamp/wetland variety and Black Gum grows in hilly country.

A variety of black gum also grows in the swamp.  It is Nyssa slyvatica var. biflora.  The easiest way to tell them apart is leaf size and petiole length.  Water tupelo has a petiole over 1" long whereas black gum's is shorter.  There is another species of tupelo called ogeechee gum, Nyssa ogeche, but is only found in Georgia and Florida.  The swamp versions usually have a very flared or buttressed trunk.  Wood ducks like to eat the drupes (fruits with a pit like an olive).

[cutterboy]

OK, I'll be the one to ask.

WDH, what is a petiole? ??? :P

[Magicman]

I should have noted that only the two that I mentioned grow in Mississippi.  At least enough to be recognized as being native.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

OK, I'll be the one to ask.

WDH, what is a petiole? ??? :P

The stalk that joins the leaf to the stem.

[cutterboy]

Thanks David

[WDH]

Yes, it is that little stalk thingy that holds the leaf to the twig.  A petiole is always subtended by a bud  .  That means that there is a bud at the base of the petiole where it meets the twig.  This is important in distinguishing what is a petiole and what is a rachis  :D.

Not tying to throw out big words, but botany has a language all its own.  For example a Dendrologist in looking at a black gum would briefly describe it like this:  The leaf blade is oblanceolate, the leaf tips are arcuate, the margins are entire, the surface is glabrous, the petiole is short, the twig pith is diaphrammed, and the drupes are slightly ribbed.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Yes, it is that little stalk thingy that holds the leaf to the twig.  A petiole is always subtended by a bud  .  That means that there is a bud at the base of the petiole where it meets the twig.  This is important in distinguishing what is a petiole and what is a rachis  :D.

Not tying to throw out big words, but botany has a language all its own.  For example a Dendrologist in looking a black gum would briefly describe it like this:  The leaf blade is oblanceolate, the leaf tips are arcuate, the margins are entire, the surface is glabrous, the petiole is short, the twig pith is diaphrammed, and the drupes are slightly ribbed.

say_what

[WDH]

Us Dendrologists are weird  :-\.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Us Dendrologists are weird  :-\.

Dendrologist - Meaning and definition. ... Dendrologist A specialist in the identification and classification of trees and shrubs.
Also qualified to be an administrator on the FF.

They usually live in the forest of Georgia and can seldom be seen at Wildfires and controlled burns.

Loves to kill Sweet Gum!

[Magicman]

What the man said.   

[WDH]

Which one?   :D

[Magicman]

Maybe I dreaming of WDH and calling him Poston.   

[WDH]

Just because you think that you are Bibbyman  :D.

[Magicman]

Some folks will run over to another board, stir something up, and then come back looking up  : and whistling.  Guilty is as guilty does.   :D

[Okrafarmer]

All right, what kind of sweetgummery is going on here now? Anyway, I thought a dendroligist was somebody who treats scalp disorders.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

All right, what kind of sweetgummery is going on here now? Anyway, I thought a dendroligist was somebody who treats scalp disorders.

They're FLAKEY.   :D

[WDH]

If the bark has been peeled or knocked off, the tree has been scalped.

[cutterboy]

Thankyou Professor WDH for that magnificent lecture on dendrologistry. Now sir, if you could let me know how to explain to my wife that sawing lumber is more important than going shopping I would be very grateful. :D

[Okrafarmer]

Just explain that sawing lumber is how you get the money for her to shop with.

[WDH]

Cutter,

There are some problems that can't be solved  .

[fat olde elf]

Sure glad I took the time to read this thread. Where are we ?

[Magicman]

This thread proves just how far we can go without getting to food.  Not even the "g" word.   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

This thread proves just how far we can go without getting to food.  Not even the "g" word.   

:D :D :D smiley_clapping :D :D :D

[Okrafarmer]

But I did eat a leaf from the Tupelo tree and it was as good as most vegetables.

[cutterboy]

But I did eat a leaf from the Tupelo tree and it was as good as most vegetables.

A leaf is ok, but if you start chewing on the bark I'd say it's time to come out of the woods.

[WDH]

The drupe pits are hard on the teeth.

[Okrafarmer]

It isn't drupe season yet, so I didn't get a chance to eat any drupes.

[WDH]

Since it is not drupe season, stay away from the peaches, cherries, and olives  .

[Okrafarmer]

The cherries will drupe before long. It was so funny when I had sheep, they would go around eating the black cherries off the ground, and it looked like they were eating their own terds.

[WDH]

The wild black cherries have a distinctive tart taste.  Have you tried any?

[Magicman]

I think that Okra was afraid that he could not tell the difference.   

[Okrafarmer]

I think that Okra was afraid that he could not tell the difference.   

:D :D :D :D
I can tell the difference when I pick them off the tree.  ;)  Yes they do taste good, but they are 80% pitt and it takes a lot of them to make a mouthful.

[Okrafarmer]

The wild black cherries have a distinctive tart taste.  Have you tried any?

Oh believe me, I have tried many more things than I ever should have.  :-[

[Migal]

I'm not going to  :D but I can still  8)

[thurlow]

Back when we usta farm with open station tractors......and the fields were much smaller......., there were lots of wild black cherry trees around the edges of the fields.  The old folks said that they were pizen, but I've eaten them many a time.  Just pull the old "H" Farm-a-little or the WD or WD-45 up under the limbs.  Took a dozen or more to get beyond the bitterness, but they were GOOD.  Of course, I usta eat a lot of green apples, wild plums and other things that my stomach would rebel against now................

[WDH]

I saw some fine water tupelo today in Pulaski County, GA.  These trees were in a slough off of the Ocmulgee River.  Some of them were over 100 feet tall. 

[Magicman]

How you git your sawmill upa 100' tree  ??? ???

[WDH]

I saw them but I did not saw them  :D.

[Magicman]

Aw man, I wanted to see you saw from the top down.     That would put a new wrinkle on a butt swell log.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I saw them but I did not saw them  :D.

say_what

[Okrafarmer]

Aw man, I wanted to see you saw from the top down.     That would put a new wrinkle on a butt swell log.

Next time you're going to do that, let me come see too. Maybe we can have a new kind of sawmill now, that everybody's going to want. You know what that means--- a new sponsor for the FF!  ;D