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Pics of my belsaw...maybe

Started by snowshoveler, April 06, 2012, 07:50:20 PM

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snowshoveler

 

  

  

  

  

  

  I did a little work this afternoon to my mill and took a few pics after I finished.
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

b dukes

Looking good , what kinda engine are you running ,  I really like all the pics of the belsaws people have been posting , I have picked up some good ideas. Where is your blade guide? Am I just not seeing it.

snowshoveler

The engine is a 1935 Cat D4400, I think it qualifies as a vintage engine. I rebuilt it last year.
Very good on fuel and starts easily.
I don't have a guide and this mill hasn't had one for a very long time. I should be putting one on.
I made up the slide like Tripp uses and put a small table at the bottom to hold lumber.
I also put a nice stainless screen between me and the blade.
Last weekend a nasty little knot hit me in the belly button...I said ouch.
My log deck is quite high on the outside but the skidloader has no trouble putting logs up there.
The channel iron makes a nice top and I use some flatbar to roll logs onto the mill.
Slides right back into the channel when not in use.
Chris
 
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Tripp

Really like your mill setup. looks like you have been busy lately. I would like to see it in operation. Assuming from your name you are nowhere close to Georgia.

I bought a new blade guide from Timberking about two years ago, they may still have some. If not you could probabily fabricate one.

Tripp

snowshoveler

Hi Tripp
I live in Nova Scotia.
Snowshoveler is a nickname I earned a while back when we had 3 feet of snow overnight.
This past winter we had no snow to plow, I didn't even put the plow on the loader.
I will attempt to fab up a guide tommorow using a big shackle and some threaded hardwood for the guides themselves.
Regards Chris
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Tripp

Chris,

I have had really good luck using hard wood guide pins soaked in engine oil. They wear very little.

Just as I thought, you are a long way away. My dad was up your way last year. Beautiful country with alot of lumber production.

Tripp

bandmiller2

Shoveler,bet that old engine has some torque,the old ones make the best mill engines they don't turn fast and live forever.Nice cozy mill building,you had a good winter to build it.I used hardwood plugs for my guides but pressed a piece of oil lite sintered bronze bushing over each.A big shackle should work,it helps if you have fine adjustment,and it really needs to be done with the saw up to speed,needless to say with great care.In past posts there was alot of sawguide talk especially Jeff and Ron W. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

captain_crunch

Cris
Dont give up on guide  it wii be comeing ur way

Brian
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

snowshoveler

I think I will wire up the start switch that is above the speed control and clutch levers.
It will be nice to be able to start the engine from the operators position. Can stop it and adjust speed there.
So far I can just hear the engine running while sawing. This thing is strong, specs say over 230 lbs torque at 1200 rpm.
I don't think the v8 in my truck has that at that rpm.
Chris   
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

apm

Great job on the pictures, snowshoveler! You've got a very cool looking operation going on there. I see a flat belt, how wide is it? How do you tension it? Are you running a twist to get it in the right direction?

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

snowshoveler

7 inch flat belt with a twist. I put a turnbuckle on the inside end of the engine cradle. Took a few tries to get it "right".
I should have put in a picture of the roof. I used fiberglass greenhouse panels. Lets in lots of light but not hard on the eyes.
Just about have the remote start switch wired.
Might also attempt the little wheels for the log roll over thingy.
Chris
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Al_Smith

The D 4400 Cat engine was the power used on the early D4 crawlers  from the RD 4 up to the 5 T series .Years of approx 1935 to 1947 more or less . Originally they were all pony start .Somewhere in the area of 43 HP on the belt .

snowshoveler

My little D4400 was not a crawler engine. It was always a power unit and came with a 2 speed PTO.
Engine rpm is 1550 and has a HP rating of 51. It is 24 volt electric start with gear drive generator on front of engine.
For ease of cold weather starting it has a manifold flamethrower that preheats the intake when starting.
It is for sure an oddball and had the fellows over on ACMOC scratching their heads.
Regards Chris 
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

snowshoveler

I got the remote start switch hooked up, working nice.
Figgured I would pull the carriage off and re-align the track. Got that done, wasn't to bad but did have a wow or 2 in it.
Rolled carriage bachk and forth by hand and noticed right away that some of the screws I used bump the wheels a bit.
Might not affect anything but I think I will go to the hardware store and get a few new ones and fix it proper.
Regards Chris 
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Al_Smith

Well yes of course they made the D 4400 in a power unit .That engine was used in a lot of things .I've seen a few of them doing service as stone crusher engines in small quarries .

That manifold heater must be rather unique item because the original ones use an igniter plug that ran via the pony magneto .

I'll have to look that one up as I have the book someplace .The big question is where . :D

snowshoveler

Hi Al...
Somewhere I have pics of the flamethrower. There is a hand pump with a container that holds kerosene and also an unusual sparkplug with a coil in the intake as well. It gets power from the start solinoid. The had pump uses a pressure switch to control when spark plug fires.
Just about scared the crap outa me when I first played with it.
I haven't needed to use it since then. If its above freezing the engine starts no problem.
Other than needing to get the generator doing its thing the engine is good to go. Could be easier to put an alternator on. The last owner did.
Regards Chris 
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Al_Smith

If I'm not mistaken that engine used a gear drive generater that somehow bolted to the engine .I'm thinking it went in somehow to the cam idle gear on the front of the engine .

I imagine trying to find one would be like looking for a hens tooth .The crawlers normally being pony start didn't even have one except the very rare few that had lights and an electric start  pony which I've never seen on the early  crawlers and only a few on the 6u and 7 u series D4's  which was a slightly different engine .

Now I've never seen that series of engine with total electric start but assume it spins the engine over rather fast because a pre combustion chamber diesel needs some spin up speed to get it started .

Rambling on ,on the pony motor start you could roll the engine over on decomp until you got oil pressure then throw the lever and roll it over the warm the cylinders without the fuel rail kicked in .After a few minutes throw in the fuel and eventually it would start . How would you do that on an electric start ? I'd think you'd run the batteries down before it fired off .

thurlow

Looks great, Chris!  I've had a M-14 for nigh on ot 30 years; bought it strictly for my own use, but seldom use it since I retired (row-crop farmer/cattleman) .  Within their capabilities, they're a great mill.  My set up in not nearly as fasisticated as yours and is pto-driven.


 



 



Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

snowshoveler

Hi again Al...
You when I try to explain something I usually learn a bit myself.
You are correct the genny does bolt to the front of the engine and does run of gearing for the cam.
The generator is huge, first time I saw it I thought it was the starter.
28 volts and 20 amps.
The original regulator was a big box all wired in conduit. However it was trashed.
I have a much smaller more conventional regulator but wireing it and getting good results haven't happened.
I am using 2 1200 amp truck batteries and they are capable of starting the engine in our coldest weather without the preheat flamethrower.
However when this engine was built, batteries like this were not exactly common I don't think.
On the front side of the housing that the generator is mounted to is a shaft with a keyway and I have a pulley that fits there. This is how the previous owner ran an alternator.
In the event that I can't get the genny to work I will run the alternator.
I am somewhat challenged with electricity but my brother is an instrument tech so getting him to help might be an answer.
Regards Chris   
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

snowshoveler

Hello Thurlow
I remember looking at your pictures and thinking that you have a good setup.
I looked at every belsaw picture I could find.
Borrowed ideas from all of them...I liked how you can tip up lour loading beams.
Regards Chris 
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Al_Smith

Well in that case you might be better off to hang a 60 amp Chevy Delcotron self regulating alternater and wire the batteries to charge on 12 volts in parellel rather than in series with 24 volts . Even simpler just plug in a trickle charger and forget about using the engine .

If I can find the wiring diagram on a 24 volt Cat generater I'll send it to you .Gezze though if you need parts for that thing and go through Cat  you'd have a kings ransome in them .

Caterpillar is one of the finest companys in the world for supplying parts for anything they ever made but they are not cheap .

snowshoveler

I agree in being able to supply parts ...no trouble to get piston rings. They only wanted 250 for 1 set, yikes. I got the 4 sets
for 160 delevered from hastings.
The generator is a leese nevile unit and so was the original regulator.
Regulator I have aquired is a delco unit I think, might not be compatable.
The alternator is indeed the 60 or so amp 12 volt chebby unit. Just need to fabricate a mount and I can wire up that.
I would then have a bit of juice to run a sawdust conveyor maybe.
Regards Chris   
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

apm

Thurlow you look like you know what you're doing, there. Great to have a mill inside like yours. Nothing like those pretty red oak boards falling off the mill.

Snowshoveler, I took a Delco 1 wire alternator to the shop and they rewired it for 24 volts for $35.00 to use on the Deutz.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

snowshoveler

I did not know a 12 volt alternator could be changed up to 24 volts.
I need to check that out.
Really would like to put some sort of electric motor on the outside end of the sawdust conveyor that I have not built yet.
I was going to just power it off the carriage drive shaft but am nervous of the conveyor chain breaking and piling up under the blade.
Tripp and some others have mentioned this situation. I have also noted that most conveyors are powered at the outside end.
I would just use a 110 dc motor but am not close enough to that.
I am hoping that I can source a small dc motor that will do this.
Thanks Chris   
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Al_Smith

You don't need it to put out 24 volts .You hook the charge circuit to charge each battery at 12 volts .If nothing else you could use a heavy duty Ford starter relay in series between the two battery series connections to isolate them .Unless you need the battery power for more than just to start the diesel that is .

I think sometimes I confuse people with the way I explain things or try to .I know what I'm doing but I lack the abilty sometimes to convey it as such it can be easily understood .

As far as a DC motor for a sawdust conveyer why not just a regular 120 volt AC motor .A lot less fooling around and a whole lot cheaper to install .

Now unless this mill is in some isolated place you have no AC power available .

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