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Belsaw modifications

Started by apm, April 01, 2012, 01:13:18 PM

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apm

There's been a good bit of Belsaw activity on here, lately, so I thought I'd show a few modifications I've made. The first is going from tractor PTO drive to a stationary diesel power unit. It seems the tractor was always needed for other tasks around the mill and hooking and unhooking was tedious.I bought a Deutz 6 cylinder air cooled power unit from FF member Warren in Kentucky a couple of years ago. It's 125 horsepower, turbo charged, and makes 395 foot pounds of torque at 1600 RPM. That's more power than the 8" flat belt can transmit, but sure seems like plenty available with very little loss at the mandrel. The belt runs on a steel pulley at the power unit and a large truck tire at the mandrel.

The next thing was a 1" bar stock "rack" that bolts to the headblocks to allow me to get down to a 1" dog board. It's always been difficult having to finish with a 2" dog board just because the way the dogs mount they wouldn't retract far enough to leave a 1" board. In the past I've propped 1" boards behind the dog board in order to get close enough, but that got a little dangerous a few times. The rack feels like it's going to work out fine and the dogs will still go down to the deck to grip a one inch board laying flat to be edged. 

  

  

  

  

 
Timberking 1600 now

apm

Here's a few more pictures, I didn't know how many I could put in one post.

Greg

  

  

  

  

 
Timberking 1600 now

redbeard

You have really put some thought and time into your set up. Good job.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

b dukes

Can you post some pics of your sawdust chain. If my blower doesn't work out , I might try what you have done. You have done a great job on your setup. I would also like to add a rail on the headblocks like you have. After I get all the bugs worked out of mine , I would like to find a power unit to free up my tractor.

snowshoveler

Me too about the sawdust chain pictures.
So far I have just been shoveling the sawdust into softspots around the mill.
I would rather walk in the sawdust than the mud. Cleanup is much easier as well.
Looks like you did a nice job on your setup.
You did your homework for sure.
Chris
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

steamsawyer

I really like your pneumatic belt pulley. I like your belt tensioner too. I have a cypress stump about 25' behind my engine that I use a chain come-a-long on ocasionally.

You can do a lot of work through an eight inch belt. What size is your blade?

I was going to ask for pictures of the shed too then I went to your gallery. A shed is the next thing I plan to invest in.

Everything looks like you did some thinking in the process. I like it.

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

apm

The dust chain is really pretty simple. It's #55 flat chain from a junked manure spreader. I welded 2X4 paddles on about every 2 feet. It's run by a 1/3 horsepower electric motor through a gear reducer from an old HVAC system. It leaves the underside of the mill on an angle because I originally needed room to back the tractor in to drive the mandrel. It only brings the dust out about 10 feet, but that's enough to get it out from under the blade and be able to move it on out with the loader.

The belt tensioner serves double duty. It tensions the belt, but also lets me track the belt to run true on the pulleys. Alternately tighten one and loosen the other twists the power unit to the optimum position.

I have a 40" blade and a 48". I haven't tried the 48" with the new setup, yet. The 40 runs so nice and most of my logs are well within it's capabilities, I just hate to change it. 

  

  

  

  

 
Timberking 1600 now

Farmer_17

Nice setup Greg that was a good idea using the tire for the flat belt. Like the saw dust removal chain setup also I have a blower that I am going to use don't know how well it will work. The photo's of the reader board give's me a good idea what it should look like, do you find that you use it all the time  or something that you can do without . What Is your frame set on ?
Thanks Farmer
Farmer TD-9 dozer, Fordson backhoe, Ford 8N, Belsaw M-14,1922 Studebaker touring, 1958 Edsel, 1948 Nash

bandmiller2

That Deutz is a beauty,but I'd hate to have a run away carriage with a big log on it.Have you considered turning the engine around and crossing the belt to change direction,better traction too.APM you have the power,but I hate to see a blower driven from a margional power unit when a simple conveyer uses squat for power and is quiet.A flat belt works for a sawdust conveyer too.I'd feel a little more comfy digging a deep hole for a big post in front of that engine.You've put alot of work in, and have a nice setup there APM. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

apm

Hi Farmer,
The frame is just set on railroad ties dug in flat to the ground level. We don't really have "frost" here. It's been like that for years now and haven't had any movement. I use the scale for every cut, don't know how you'd get any consistency otherwise.

Frank,
I love the fact the Deutz is air cooled, no radiator or antifreeze to keep up with. there's a steel stop at the end of the frame to keep the carriage from running away, I hope it's enough. I considered turning the power unit around and twisting the belt, but that's the only space where I can park the tractor in the dry. I'd hate to give that up.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

captain_crunch

On Duanes American with fast carrage we mounted an old quad tire flat on end fer stop not quite the bone jarring wack if you hit stop
Here are a couple pics of my sawdust chute and conveyer







we bolted strips of hi molly plastic about 1 in wide eyery 4 ft to carry sawdust and slivers out used a small hyd motor run off 12V hyd pump It dont run continiously just after cut on gig back. It originally had blower but I dont have electricity other than generator so could not use it. Besides Duane said he was always un plugging slivers and chunks of bark out of it
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Woodchuck53

Very nice APM. How loud do the Duetz engines run? Can saw dust get in the cooling duct area of the engine? I have a similiar chain set up with paddles out of Case combine grain hopper elevator chain. Plenty of parts available around here.
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

apm

Hi Woodchuck,

We're in the mountains of Northeast Tennessee, I don't suppose there's ever been a combine within 300 miles of here!  ;D I'm envious of all of the guys who talk about combines like they grow on trees. ;D

The Deutz isn't loud at all. I am going to have to extend the exhaust stack a little. The offbearer breathes a few more fumes than he likes. I haven't run it enough, yet, to tell if the dust will build up in the cooling fins, but it doesn't seem like it's going to be any problem. Even if I had to stop and blow it out occassionaly, it sure beats coolant, hoses, radiators and leaks. The temperature seems to stay real stable. It's got a big heat exchanger for cooling the oil as well as forced air across the heads.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Farmer_17

Hey Greg I know what you are talking about with combines when we where back in Ohio machinery parts where a dime a dozen. Out here in California it is slim pickings . I am going to try a blower and if that does not work I will look on Craigslist. If you have a problem with dust maybe you could add a second filter system away from the saw with a hose  to it. That sure is a nice power unit I bet your a happy camper.
I graded a pad for my saw today now I need to read the manual on how to set the frame up, I have 48 feet of track and two carriages so it will be a job. Since my scale is missing what do you think will work I seen on youtube a guy had the scale in the back and a board on top of it that made a L what is that all about.
Farmer
Farmer TD-9 dozer, Fordson backhoe, Ford 8N, Belsaw M-14,1922 Studebaker touring, 1958 Edsel, 1948 Nash

captain_crunch

Scale dont have to be Belsaw unless you want original Ihave often thought about adding a steel ruler to set works fer guide but where I can set cheat wheel to desired board thickness and be within 1/16 same on all boards dont use scale other than tell me what is left as in saw cant to 6 in flip cant set wheel to 2 in and whip out 2X6 boards But I always run cant into saw and mark it and back up carrage measure cut then correct if nessary. My wheel is only 2 in often wish it were 4 in high to allow fer taper on tapered log
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

bandmiller2

A good carriage stop is important.My 14' carriage is steel and weighs DanG close to a ton, get a one ton log on and you have the weight of a real american automobile to stop.Carriage has 6" pipe for bumpers on each end.I dug deep holes for sections of phone pole with an auto leaf spring bolted on,the top of which hits the carriage bumper.Usally you run amuck on gigback when your paying attention to something else and the carriage flies by.It hits those springs and fires it right back at you with no shock to the mill frame. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Don_Papenburg

I guess that the springs out of an old Hendrickson tandem would not work very well then. :)
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

dail_h

I just cant imagine a sawyer gettin distracted, n lettin the carriage go too far by. I "Know" i've never did that  ;D
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
      Volume Discount At ER
Singing The Song Of Circle Again

cfish

Hello all, new to forum . I sure like your set up . I hope to get there eventually. I have a problem with my m 14, as i feed the log through the saw it pulls the blade toward the carriage. I am stumped . any help would be appreciated.  Thanks for now.   

Woodchuck53

Welcome aboard cfish, you'll get all the help you need here at this place.

We like pictures of each others site so we can admire the workmanship. Also some of these guys can just look at a set up and offer suggestions. Nah we copy the heck out of stuff if it looks like it will work better than what we currently have.

Stay tuned and stay safe.
Case 1030 w/ Ford FEL, NH 3930 w/Ford FEL, Ford 801 backhoe/loader, TMC 4000# forklift, Stihl 090G-60" bar, 039AV, and 038, Corley 52" circle saw, 15" AMT planer Corley edger, F-350 1 ton, Ford 8000, 20' deck for loader and hauling, F-800 40' bucket truck, C60 Chevy 6 yd. dump truck.

bandmiller2

Welcome Cfish,sounds like you have a little too much lead into the log/cant.The saw is not perfectly parallel to the carriage it needs to toe into the cant slightly.Usally that measurement is between 1/32 to 3/16" you just have to try as different mills require a different lead.There are many posts here on adjustment and alot of reading. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

thecfarm

cfish,welcome to the forum. Not a circular sawmill guy.I have a bandsaw mill. How long you been sawing?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

apm

Hi Cfish,

First, welcome! The condition you're running into is not all that uncommon with circle saws. Fortunately there are some cheap and easy things to check. Frank's right about checking the lead. If you don't know how to do that, just ask, and we can easily explain it. If the saw was cutting well, and then started giving you problems, I always suspect the condition of the teeth. You can eliminate a number of variables by installing brand new bits in the saw and giving it a try. You'd be surprised how often teeth that look good and look sharp just won't cut straight. It doesn't take much alteration of the tooth geometry to give you fits. Speed is another thing cheap and easy to confirm. Make sure your saw is staying up to speed in the cut, not slowing down. If you've got belt slippage or clutch slippage on a PTO shaft, or even too little power to the saw, you'll get poor results.
Tell us a little more about your setup and when and how the problem started.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Tripp

Love the new power unit setup. I am also going diesel on my belsaw. Good inspiration to get mine done.

Tripp

apm

Hey Tripp!  Good to hear from you, I thought you'd been gone awhile. I just mentioned your setup and videos in another thread. The question was about off bearing and Frank mentioned the Belsaw recommendation for slanted tables. I mentioned that your video showed those in use.  what've you been up to?

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

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