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tap hole puzzle

Started by ArborJake, March 27, 2012, 09:47:51 PM

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ArborJake

   This has puzzled me for a couple of years. We took down a sugar maple two years ago about 200 years old. My friend tried to cut slabs of of it with a 6' bar. The tree was about 40". Needles to say that without jake there it didn't work. Anyway the puzzle. about the slab about 4" from the center of the tree had a couple tap holes. Why didn't these holes heal over. The tap holes farther from the center did.

  

 
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Magicman

Someone else can probably give a better answer than I can, but the heartwood in a tree is really dead as far as growing.  It provides the strength to hold the tree up and does transfer moisture, but it is not growing and it can not "heal" itself.  It's only growth is adding layers as the tree grows in diameter.  If there is a hole inside of the heartwood, it stays.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

hamish

There is a chance that the taps n the tree ears ago were never removed and have just disolved, in the picture there is a difference in the heartwood colour above and below the tap hole.

I have been wrong before, many times in fact, but I was right once.
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

beenthere

The holes probably did grow over with new wood, but the existing holes in the old wood wouldn't "heal" as there are no live, growing cells there.  The only "healing" is from the growing layer of the tree outward from there. Like MM says.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

colinofthewoods

I will start by saying,  very cool find.

Also,  since i consider myself a big chainsaw guy, I have also been very impressed by the pics of Jakes chainsaw handiwork.  Maybe his previous life was as a west coast faller.

I think Mr.Magicman hit it on the button,   but I do hope whoever ends up with the wood,  gets as much of a kick out of the tap holes as I did looking at the pictures. Every good log tells a story

customsawyer

That is some interesting wood.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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Chuck White

Magic and beenthere both got it.

The heartwood is done growing and only the sapwood grows.

The sapwood will heal the opening of the tap hole, but the tap hole inside will remain open.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Axe Handle Hound

I concur with MM, Beenthere, and Chuck.  Once you drill that hole it stays there forever, just the opening in the outside rim of the tree where you drilled through the cambium will ultimately heal over.  The dark streaks above and below the tree are from the tree walling off the cells on account of the damage/bacterial infestation caused by driling the tap hole.  Happens around every tap hole that gets drilled.  On a side note, it's worth getting those logs cut up right.  Lumber full of tap holes goes for high dollar around here.   

millwright

MM is right on the money, I have been making syrup for many years and sometimes cull out damaged trees and then mill them, the old tap holes show up on the inside without much sign on the outer bark.

ArborJake

 The log has metal in it but a friend of mine has a chain saw mill and said he'd cut it if I buy the chain. Sound s fair enough. Who do you market wood like this to, and how do you determine a price.
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Wintergreen Mountain

   Actually most of the tap holes do heal and grow back fully. It all depends on the growing seasons. Poorer growing seasons will not grow back fully.
   I have cut many maples i our old sugarbush and found as many as 60 or 70 tap holes. About 6 to 10 of them are just as they were the day drilled. The rest are fully grown back in with the outline of the hole showing.
LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

beenthere

Show us a pic of where this happened. Would be interesting to see.

Growing wood over the tap hole in subsequent years is normally what happens. Healing the hole within the "dead" wood is the puzzle.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ArborJake

 I,ll get some more pics this week hopefully when my friend comes to saw it. I make maple syrup myself and usually the tap holes I make are healed over when I tap the following year. As far as I know you should only tap into the sap wood. You are after sap after all, That's what puzzled me, but aparently this type of thing is not at all uncommon. Thanks everyone for your thoghts.      Jake
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Axe Handle Hound

Wintergreen Mountain- Just wondering, could it be that some of those tap holes that appeared grown shut were actually the result of someone plugging the holes? 

Wintergreen Mountain

    Axe Handle Hound and ArborJake.
   I will try to find a cutaway and post a picture when  i get a chance.

   LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Chuck White

Quote from: ArborJake on April 01, 2012, 07:56:56 PM
I,ll get some more pics this week hopefully when my friend comes to saw it. I make maple syrup myself and usually the tap holes I make are healed over when I tap the following year. As far as I know you should only tap into the sap wood. You are after sap after all, That's what puzzled me, but aparently this type of thing is not at all uncommon. Thanks everyone for your thoghts.      Jake 


Right, you don't drill into the heartwood, just the sapwood, but eventually the sapwood becomes heartwood as the tree grows.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

ArborJake

 I see. The tap holes opening closes but not always the rest of it before it starts to turn to heartwood.
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Magicman

But even sapwood does not actually "heal" itself.  It grows over and covers the wound.  Over a period of time this new growth will extrude into and eventually completely fill the hole.  Heartwood can not do this.  If the hole happened to be drilled into a part of a tree that had thin sapwood, then it goes through the sapwood and into heartwood.  If the hole is drilled into heartwood, it stays a hole.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ArborJake

 Ah, I'm with ya now. As a certified arborist I realy should've known that. Tree biology was never my strongest point.
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Wintergreen Mountain

As a follow up on maple tree tap holes healing depending on the growing season and other effects.
HERE ARE SOME PHOTO'S.  If they uploaded.
  It is discolored but very solid regrowth.


      155 YEAR OLD MAPLE TREE.
     
      FLETCHER, VERMONT. 2012

      28 INCHES DIAMETER.
      LAST TAPED IN 1940 ACCORDING TO THE GROWTH RINGS.
      THE FIRST 54 YEARS WERE POOR GROWTH PERIODS. (1/32" to 1/16")
      THE SECOND 50 YEARS WERE A VERY GOOD GROWTH PERIODS. (1/4" to 3/8")
      THE LAST 51 YEARS WERE POOR GROWTH PERIODS.










     










1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Wintergreen Mountain

One more picture of a unhealed hole on this cross section.



1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

beenthere

Not sure, but appears to be plenty of decay showing up.

What is "solid regrowth" ?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Wintergreen Mountain

benthere

  The growth in the tap holes is solid regrowth with a dakened color.with the rings passing unifomally across the tap hole. It is not rot or decay.
  The tree, as you can see, doe's have substantial rot in one area away from the tap holes and in the center.

LEON
1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

Jeff

Ran into hundreds and hundreds of tap holes over the years in the sawmill and never found any that "filled up"  They healed over, but never did they fill in with new wood. Perhaps duff from insects or rot, but I didn't think it was possible for them to grow full, only shut.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Wintergreen Mountain

jeff

  I wish i could get this cross section to all of you so you would see it in real time. Pictures don't show it very well.
  I'm not sure but would guess that the exposure to bacteria that discolored the wood around the holes also discolored the new growth in the hole as it healed.

LEON

1920 Ford 4x4 tractor, forks & bucket. 2010 36" Turner Mills band mill. Cat-Claw blade sharpener. Cat-Claw Dual Tooth Setter. Cat D3 crawler dozer. Cat 215c excavator, Ford L9000 dump truck. Gardner Denver 190 portable air compressor. KatoLight 40Kw trailer mounted gen set. Baker M412 4-head planer.

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