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Keeping it clean.

Started by Bibbyman, March 22, 2012, 04:47:48 AM

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Bibbyman

In the late of the night I got a I.M. from a newer Forum member with a number of questions all centered around the importance of and how to clean logs before sawing.  Good questions so I figured I'd just open up a new topic.

First off,  dirt is bad, bad, bad.  It will dull a blade rather quickly. 

The best action is to saw a clean log.  If you are in control of the log from felling to sawing then take all advantages in keeping the log clean.   If you're a hobby sawyer with a portable mill, then take the mill to the log if possible.  If not possible, transport the log to the mill by picking it up.  If you don't have a loader or "picker", then a log arch (like sold by LogRite) is a good investment.

But we all get dirty logs to deal with so what to do? 

If you have a pressure washer and a few logs and the time, then go for it.  We rented a pressure washer one time for a batch of really dirty and rock-filled logs and it was a mess.  It was time consuming and not real effective at getting the rocks out of the bark that were pressed in deep.  I don't see a pressure washer as a viable method for any kind of production sawing.

Many people use some kind of ax or spade or roofing tool to scrape off crud or even the bark.  We often use an ax, draw knife, to chop off the dirt.  We have an array of screw drivers and other pick-like tools around to gouge out rocks or deep pockets of dirt.   The whole log does not need to be cleaned – only where the blade enters the log.  We will also clean the side where the blade exits but are less concerned with that side as the teeth push the dirt out instead of pulling it in.

We have a debarker – or mud saw, as they're often called – on our mill and it helps a lot on light dirt.  But it may not always get through heavy, dry dirt on logs with deep bark terrain.  A debarker is not always an option on basic model mills as they tend to drive up the cost of the mill. 

If you have a debarker on your mill, check it every so often to make sure it's tracking right and removing the bark in the path of the blade.  I checked ours the other day and it was way off – thus doing us no good.  Also,  a new blade works wonders.  When I adjusted the debarker, I noted the teeth were well rounded (don't have to be real sharp to work) and one tooth was missing.  I replaced the blade and now it cuts deep again.

There is dirt and then there is dirt filled with grit.  If a log is fell in the highlands or maybe prairie ground where the soil is all compost then it's not really too bad on the blade.  But if it came from and drug over rocky soil or from a creek bottom ground that contains sand and grit, then it's really bad and will dull blades quickly.

Logs don't have to be dirty to have "true grit".  My son cut a lot of soft maple for a guy.  It stood along a stream.  He soon found out he'd have to sharpen his chain saw after each tree due to the grit that was ingrown in the bark on the trees from being exposed to flood water.  He started hacking off the bark around the base of the tree before felling to keep his chain sharp.  We often find this in logs that come from areas that are prone to flood.

If dirt and grit are bad, rocks are death.

Even a small rock the size of a 22 bullet will at the minimum dull a blade.  Often hitting one will not only dull a blade but knock the tip off of one or more teeth.  Maybe this damaged blade can be resharpened and used but the damaged teeth will still leave a mark on the boards.  Quite often a rock will just destroy a blade.

We visually inspect each log as it rolls onto the mill for any rocks it may have picked up.  Logs with deep, soft bark (like walnut) tend to pick up and hold rocks better than logs with hard, tight bark (like sycamore).

We buy most all our logs and have no control over how they're handled before we get them.  But we have an area where we unload our logs that is paved over with sawmill bark and debris so we lay the logs out on a dirt and rock free area.  Once taken up (measured and bought), I sort and store them on dirt that happens to be "clean" dirt, as clean as dirt can be.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

customsawyer

I remember in one of the projects WDH and I were working on there was some Ga. red clay on the log and Danny was over there trying to scape it off. I just waved him out of the way engage the debarker and went to sawing. Danny stood there shaking his head saying that would have killed his blade. The logs that I cut down at the big mill come strait from the loggers to me. Lots of these logs have been laid down in the mud so that they can use them for a skidding road like they do on the Swamp Loggers TV show. Needles to say there is mud caked on all sides of these logs. The debarker works wonders.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Nomad

     Around here "dirt" really means "sand."  And very fine sand at that.  The biggest problems for me are with pine.  The plates on the bark act like thousands of scoops to pick up, hide and hold it as presents for my band.  Unless the bark is slipping, it's very time consuming to try to get it out and still doesn't get more than half of it.  Guys operating machinery moving the logs who can't understand that dragging them in the sand isn't helping me are a problem too.
     It's amazing how fast sand dulls a band!  Now that I've got a debarker I hope it'll ease the problem somewhat.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Chuck White

Quote from: customsawyer on March 22, 2012, 05:02:46 AM
I remember in one of the projects WDH and I were working on there was some Ga. red clay on the log and Danny was over there trying to scape it off. I just waved him out of the way engage the debarker and went to sawing. Danny stood there shaking his head saying that would have killed his blade. The logs that I cut down at the big mill come strait from the loggers to me. Lots of these logs have been laid down in the mud so that they can use them for a skidding road like they do on the Swamp Loggers TV show. Needles to say there is mud caked on all sides of these logs. The debarker works wonders.

Absolutely right customsawyer!

I've sawn Hemlock logs that were so caked in with mud, that they looked like beech!

The debarker is worth every penny of what we pay for them.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

MJD

I have a log wizard, fits on the end of a chainsaw bar , has a small planner head that I run on the cut line of the blade.

Bolie

MJD
I bought a lond wizard and thats what i was going to try was debark saw line..Havent tried it yet maybe today but dont know had some bad weather down here.Did it work good?

Thanks Bo
If you want to do something bad enough you'll find a way,If you don't you'll find an excuse!!!!!!!!

bandmiller2

Bibby's post should be saved,it pretty much covers this subject.I've found any sort of pressure washer wile removing visable dirt drives the rest deep into the bark.When I place a log on the bandmill I clean the bands path with a wire brush and/or axe.Debarkers work, myself I don't like the DanG things swinging in the way.I'am not making a liveing sawing and take the time to clean the bands path.Real dirty logs fornicate em, they can take them elsewhere,most would not run their chainsaws in them after draging through the mud.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Magicman

Since I am portable, making the off bearers aware that dirt is bad helps.  I show them what needs to be removed and provide wire brushes, etc. to do it with.

Having a Debarker allows me to often turn the very dirtiest part of the log up and/or quartering toward the blade entry.  That way most comes off with the first log opening.


 
Manual Debarkers.   ;D


 
Worn out debarkers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

zopi

a cheap old chisel on a steek is nice....think framing slick. but dirt cheap and homemade.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Bogue Chitto

I have a fire hose on my irrigation pump. Does a very good job. 

MJD

Quote from: Bolie on March 22, 2012, 08:24:42 AM
MJD
I bought a lond wizard and thats what i was going to try was debark saw line..Havent tried it yet maybe today but dont know had some bad weather down here.Did it work good?

Thanks Bo
Yes it works good, slower than peeling bark off if its loose but faster than sharpening a band blade.

Brucer

A contractor bought a log from me last year to use as a "feature" post in a house. He asked if I would remove the bark for him. I said I could probably get Mary to do it with a draw knife, but he should count on paying at least $100 extra. So he asked to borrow my draw knife :D. No problem.

I swung by his shop at noon and he was trying to strip bark with a pressure washer. He fetched the draw knife for me and said, "Now I know why you said $100." He wasn't making much progress with his 1800 PSI pressure washer, either.

I went by the next day and the log was gone but there was a huge pile of D-Fir bark lying on the ground. Seems he went out and rented a 3500 PSI pressure washer and it just blew the bark right off.

The trick is to find the right tool.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Magicman

Nice lesson for us all to file away.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LeeB

Never tried it on anything else, but it works great on ERC.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

MHineman

Quote from: Brucer on March 23, 2012, 01:32:05 AM
Seems he went out and rented a 3500 PSI pressure washer and it just blew the bark right off.
I've got a 3000 PSI pressure washer.  You are warned about using it to clean your truck, or other painted equipment.  It will take the paint off.
  I got it to remove paint from buildings that needed repainted.  The wood is roughed up a little, but the color is like you sanded it.  If you need a smooth surface on the building, be very careful how (the angle of spray) you use it.
  It does do a good job of stripping the bark off, but can take a while sometimes.  It depends on the species, the time of year the log was cut (in spring the bark is not as tight) and how long the log has been sitting.
1999 WM LT40, 40 hp 4WD tractor, homemade forks, grapple, Walenstein FX90 skidding winch, Stihl 460 039 saws,  homebuilt kiln, ......

captain_crunch

I have a couple of old spuds that been around ranch long as I car remember so put new handles in them and they dont work too bad
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

westyswoods

Power Washers are one of those multi tools. My wife thoughts I was absolutely nuts, (nothing new) when I told her I was going to power wash the yard. We live in the woods, leaf build up in the fall gets quite heavy. Works like a champ gets all the little sticks and dead branches that can be a pain.

Takes about one tenth the time and does much better job.
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

Brucer

With pressure washers, that pressure rating makes a huge difference. Way back when I was employed my company had a crew dedicated to operating pressure washers. Those things were mounted on a truck and operated at 10,000 PSI. They could literally cut your hand off if you were careless -- hence the specially trained operators.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

ALWOL

   Here's what I use for a bark peeler.

 
   It is a grubbing hoe, designed for grubbing the roots of weeds and brush out of the ground, but with a sharp edge it makes short work of the dirty side of a log.

      Alan
There's a big difference between staying busy and making money.

bandmiller2

If you take a grub hoe like Alwol showed with a pick on one side,cut the pick shorter and reshape, you have a pickaroon and debarker. If you let pine logs sit for a wile the bark loosens and comes right off,just before borers invade. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Dave Tarheels

So you guys are taking pressure washer to clean the bark off ?  Does that work well ?  I've seen the chainsaw debarker video but haven't used one .
LT 20 Woodmizer

LeeB

You got to have enough pressure and it makes a heck of a mess.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Dave Tarheels.  How about an "intro" thread and sharing a bit about yourself and your sawing interest.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Dave UNC.....What kinda mill you got? Welcome.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Dave Tarheels

Any particular section on the forum to do the introduction thread ? 
LT 20 Woodmizer

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