Dozer won't stay running

[LeeB]

I can't keep my D4C dozer running. It ran fine when I parked it about 4months ago. I tried to start it about two months ago when it was super cold and the battery was shot. Put in a new battery the other day and was finaly able to start it with the use of starter fluid, which I hate to use. (hard to ween them off once you get started with it) It ran fine for about 45 minutes then sputtered out. Changed fuel and air filters and replaced the hand pump on top of the filter that was leaking. Will start with starting fluid and run a few minutes after that, but won't stay running. I pulled a sample from the fuel tank and see no water in it. Diesel looks good and clean. Sure acts like a fuel problem but it's got me stumped. Any ideas?

[Sprucegum]

Could be a weak fuel pump, is it electric or manual?

If you think you might have had water get in the tank, your filters may be already plugged.

[lumberjack48]

Crack injector lines one at a time to get the air out. Crack line and turn motor over [ or pump by hand, there should be a lever on the fuel pump] on till fuel pumps out, as soon as you see fuel re-tighten. Go on to the next one, with all the air out it will fire up.

Try to stay away from starting fluid, it will break the rings

[Al_Smith]

I've got  3 of the little darlins myself .Check your fuel transfer pressure .Depending on the machine there's a check valve on the bottom of the transfer pump housing that if it gets plugged only allows the fuel to gravity feed into the filter housing .

I'm refering to the old pony start D4's .I suppose though they would be pretty much the same .I forget exactly what the transfer pressure is .I'd have to find my book which is buried around here someplace .

[Al_Smith]

On that hard start up chances are the injecters aren't spraying  properly .Makes them real tough to start when they get that way .

Lay the fluid  to them ,they bang ,pop ,hiccup ,fart and run on two,then three .Then finally 4 after about 15 minutes .

Run it hard for an hour it gets that little puff of black smoke when the gov kicks in .Let idle while you eat lunch and it decides to only run on three again .It likes to rest one very so often or something .

[LeeB]

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that it is a 1990 model. Fuel pump sounds like a likely candidate to me or something else in the fuel supply system. Having trouble doing anything with it right now due to rain and the fact my back went haywire when I stepped down off of it yesterday. I really need to get a manual for the thing. Any place to download one or will I have to buy one?

[snowstorm]

is there a sump drain in the tank? all the water will be in the bottom. in my cat excavator there are check valves in the transfer pump. any dirt or rust will plug it. i have had rust problems inside the fuel tank. i put a magnet on a wire so i could take it out along with a inline filter. if it ran fine months ago its not getting fuel or air in it. after you changed filters fill with hand pump then close the bleeder after all the air is out.........then keep on pumping another min. it will pump fuel through the injection pump and back to tank..............dont use either in warm weather

[Okrafarmer]

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that it is a 1990 model.

  I thought D4C was back in the 60's, replaced by D4D and etc. Those rascally people at Cat who decide what everything gets called. They have this habit of renaming stuff in ways that only makes sense to them.

[Al_Smith]

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that it is a 1990 model. 

Well that is just a little bit newer than my models .

7 J ,2T ,5 T .1940-1943-1946 .An amazing 35 drawbar horsepower . :D

[snowstorm]

just a bit bigger than a d3   a 3 is about 70hp  a4 80. it may have a mistibisi engine? the excavators did.

[Bobus2003]

just a bit bigger than a d3   a 3 is about 70hp  a4 80. it may have a mistibisi engine? the excavators did.

the '91 D3 I ran and the '91 CAT 518 that i run now both had/have 3304 CAT Engines

[LeeB]

I'll have to check for sure, But I believe it has a 3204.

[snowstorm]

just a bit bigger than a d3   a 3 is about 70hp  a4 80. it may have a mistibisi engine? the excavators did.

the '91 D3 I ran and the '91 CAT 518 that i run now both had/have 3304 CAT Engines

3304 in the skidder yes also 920....930 loader.....never have seen one in a d3  they used a 3204 ......3304 has sleeves the 3204 dose not

[snowstorm]

just a bit bigger than a d3   a 3 is about 70hp  a4 80. it may have a mistibisi engine? the excavators did.

the '91 D3 I ran and the '91 CAT 518 that i run now both had/have 3304 CAT Engines

the 70.....110.......120....excavators were made by mistibisui mine says cat all over it made by misti in japan

[mad murdock]

What kind of injection pump does it use? (manufacturer). I have a overhaul manual for roosa master(Hartford screw) maybe it is only on older equip. They were used on a lot of older machines. They have a rubber drive coupling in them that can crack and break, putting the timing off internally a few deg, making them hard to start and power limiting the engine, and other sorts of weird behavior. I overhauled mine for the cost of the kit Plus a couple pieces I had to replace($80.00 total), now it runs real nice, starts w/o ether(ford diesel though). Hope you get it figgered out.

[LeeB]

Been down in the back for several days and haven't been able to do anything with it so far. I'll start with the fuel lines and work out from there.

[giant splinter]

Lee
I have gone through the same problem with my D3B custom75 ser.# 27Y2750. The D4C was introduced just after the custom factory modification and is the identical same dozer, many of these machines where fit with a primary (glass type) fuel filter under the seat attached to the metal compartment wall. to get to it I needed to go through the service door on the deck at the rear of the operators compartment (right behind your heels) I bypassed the filter and have not had any further problems. The main spin on filter is more than adequate and not all the D4C dozers have these as they where added by the dealerships as an option. the symptoms: loss of power, missing and then it felt like it ran out of fuel and the engine stalled. Once it fired back up black smoke is observed just for o second. Suspect cause: air entering the fuel system.Observation:after changing the primary fuel filter (5 of them in a row) it was determined that the fixed "o" ring type gaskets that are built into the glass filters where out of spec. possibly drying out and shrunk, air was getting in without any fuel getting out to reveal the problem as this is on the gravity side of the fuel system. Fix:bypass or eliminate the primary filter. If you are under 4000 hours on your service meter and your dozer is not equipped with a glass primary filter you should get a good mechanic to check it out I suspect it will be a minor problem. Hope this is of some help

[Gary_C]

Lee, you do have a fuel problem. Most likely caused by that cold weather start and probably some junk or water in the fuel lines or tank. I have that same problem with my harvester and when you lose fuel prime it can be a son of a gun to get it restarted.

When that happens to me, I have to pump and pump on the hand pump until I get fuel coming out a cracked line at the injection pump and then crack all the injector fuel lines and crank and spray starting fluid till it fires on it's own.

Some engines can really be agrivating to restart when that happens.

[Sprucegum]

This little trick might help with your priming;

I have a piece of inner tube with the valve stem on it that I drape over the filler tube on the fuel tank and cinch it downwith a big hose clamp. I then use my 12 volt air compressor to put about 10 psi positive pressure in the tank. Makes it a lot easier to prime the filters and check the lines etc.

[Ikeholt]

That's a good tip Sprucegum.  Don't forget to check the return lines as well, fairly common for a check valve to stick.

[LeeB]

Finally got a chance to mess with the dozer today. Not getting good fuel supply from the tank. There is some kind of valve or something that the line attaches to right below the tank. Tried to take it apart but no luck. There is zero room to get in there and work. Anybody know what this thing is? I'll try and get some pictures tommorow.

[LeeB]

Finally had time and enough back to work on the dozer. Thought it was the fuel transfer pump. Started taking lines off of it and found a little screen filter right in front of the transfer pump that was almost completely clogged. That explains why it would run for a while then die. The fuel filter would slowly fill up when it wasn't runing and the could not get enough fuel to keep it full after being started. When the filter emptied, the motor died. Cleaned the little screen and now it's running like a champ. I already ordered a new transfer pump so I guess I will have a spare. Almost $200 for it. Oh well, at least it's running now. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

[Okrafarmer]

It's usually the simplest possible problem, though it often takes a lot of headache to get to it.

[LeeB]

Well, just thought I had the problem solved. Went down to push some gravel a little further down the creek so it wouldn't be so soft getting across and the dozer died in the middle of the creek. Managed to get it started up again and get it out of the creek. Cracked open the fuel lines and not getting good flow. Checked the little screen and it was clean. Started cracking lines back toward the tank and still not getting good flow. Made it all the way back to the tank and had to remove the shut off valve. Found a piece of what looked to be cedar bark stuck in the valve. access to this valve and the fuel line connection is through about a 3 1/2" hole. Took me about an hour to get the fuel line lined up and reconnected. Figured all was good. Fired up and went back to the creek to straighten up the mess I had made and she dies again.  >:(
Took the fuel line loose again to check for flow, nothing. (didn't take it loose at the tank) Managed to blow the blockage out but i guess I'm going to have to figure some way to clean out the tank. I have no idea how it got debris in there through the screen at the filling inlet.

[Okrafarmer]

Could be sabotage, doc. Just throwing that out there. It is awfully strange to get a big piece of bark down in there. Someone would just about have to do it on purpose since as you say there is a screen in the fill opening. Same as on the JD 350C I use.

[Al_Smith]

Oh yeah .I had a buddy that mysteriously had an old D2 with a tank full of fiberglass insulation .BWIW those oldies had a big heavy duty screen too before the fuel got to the tank which won't jump out all by it's lonesome .

[Okrafarmer]

It may have been a kid, just messing around, not really intending any harm, just either not knowing better, or just getting a sudden urge to do it and see if anything happens. Been there, I was a kid for way too long....

[Al_Smith]

Well I don't know much about what I consider newer dozers .The old Cats though had a transfer pressure guage that would pretty much tell you if you had clogged filters,junk in the lines etc .

Neat think about pony crankers is if it died in the middle of the creek you could walk it out with the pony motor .I somehow doubt you could move one very far with an electric starter motor .

[LeeB]

Drained the tank and fitered the fuel a few times and got a little bit of scale out. Tried to run it and died in about 5 minutes. Drained it again and took the fuel line loose at the tank again. Pulled the fuel shut off valve and found another piece of crud stuck in there. I suspect it was there from before and I just hadn't gotten all of it last time. Took about an hour to get the fuel line back on. Hard to do when there is only about a 3 1/2" hole to gat to it. Has to be lined up just right. The air was quite blue around me. Let it run about an hour after getting it all back together. Hopefully it's good this time.

[Okrafarmer]

Has to be lined up just right. The air was quite blue around me.

Don't tell me your dozer is burning oil.  :-\

[LeeB]

 :D No, I was talking about all the foul language coming from me.  :D

[snowstorm]

is there any rust in the tank?? i had rust trouble when i first got this cat excavator. went thru the same thing as you are. i used 2 magnets hooked to a wire so i could take them out . put them in the fuel tank along with a clear in line filter from the tank to transfer pump