dozers

[MICKEY108]

what would b the best dozer to log with ? i will b skidding logging with it

[Okrafarmer]

Where are you and what size and species of trees will you be going after, and for what uses? Are you sure you want to use a dozer, or would a skidder do? What type of terrain will you normally be traversing? How much money are you planning to spend on your skidding dozer? And how mechanically inclined are you?

There are many variables that go into a decision like this.

In a nutshell, if you are looking for brands, I would say it is hard to beat Caterpillar, especially for larger machines, and John Deere is pretty decent for small machines.

[Bobus2003]

I have a JD 550G.. Love it and they are pretty easy to find Arches and winches for.. Or grapple assemblies if ya want one of them

[Meadows Miller]

I like using track loaders out the bush but I have only drivin 951 Cat ,TD 9 and T340 Series Inter Drotts and a 450 Case I like them as you can skid ,load ,doze in tracks and they are pretty light on the ground pressure you just have to make sure you dont go running over stumps and such as it knocks the tracks around  ;)

what do you fellas think of the 350 & 450 JD Track loaders ??? im seriously thinking about getting one ;)

[Okrafarmer]

We have  JD 350C dozer, and it is a pretty good machine. Right now we are trying to find out what is wrong with it.  >:( John Deere 350 and 450 are good machines, but stay away from the 1010 and 2010 models (made in early '60's) as they have some trouble with their engines. a lot of the 350's and especially 450's around, so getting parts shouldn't be a problem. If you buy an older one, you should be able to get one in good running order for less than $10,000 these days, maybe even less. Remember when looking at used crawlers, the three rules of what makes a good crawler: Undercarriage, undercarriage, and undercarriage. Almost anything else can be fixed, but if you don't have the  good undercarriage you got nothing. The second most important thing is the final drives. their internal condition.

[MICKEY108]

I LIVE SW VA MOSTLY STEEP TERRAIN

[Al_Smith]

It's pretty easy to check the under carriage by just running it up on a set of blocks but i have no idea what to do about the finals .

As far as the tracks there's a method where you measure a section of track between the pins to determine pin and bushing wear .Depends on the track size of course .Someone I'm sure has the specs regarding that .

Anything can be rebuilt but it's a job .I've only done the under carriages of two small Olivers ,I'd hate the thought of doing a D8 Cat .

[Sprucegum]

Steel tracks are not much fun on hard rock terrain

[Al_Smith]

Another thing to remember ,just because it's on tracks doesn't mean you can't get it stuck . Swamp one deep enough the fan is throwing water back on you then you have a real chore on your hands getting it unstuck .Been there .

[chevytaHOE5674]

Dozers are slow, bumpy and pretty hard on the soil. But they will go over, through and Up a lot of things a rubber tired machine wont. But as said on rocky ground its like driving on ice skates, and when you get them stuck your really in trouble.

Make sure whatever machine you look at has a good undercarriage (find a wear chart so you can measure the Pin to Pin distance and rail height for the specific machine) . Motors and transmissions are usually "cheap" while undercarriage, tracks, and final drives are "expensive". I say cheap and expensive in quotes because they are all relative and any repair is going to cost you. 

[log cutter]

A cat D6C. On steep ground they better balanced. Its  little bigger than most of the guys on here run but for logging and building road they are a good choice. Here you can buy a bigger dozer cheaper than a little one. No matter what size you get you will always want a bigger one. Some guy will say that they tear up to much ground but it is all the operator. A bigger dozer will skid more logs per hour than a little one.   

[zopi]

I'm not a pro logger by any stretch of the word...but I have driven big Deere Skidders and several different dozers, from the little deeres to the Cat D-3 (brand new..nice toy! laser system) and on up to D-9's...from everything I have seen..give me the skidder in the woods....god, that thing was fun to move trees with. and fast.

[PAFaller]

Dozers are sort of a necessary evil here in PA where we have some pretty rugged ground, but most guys just bunch with them. They are too slow and its hard on undercarriages to be trying to do long skids with them. Brands here seem to be a matter of dealer preference more than loyalty to a name. Deere and Case seem to be the choice for more loggers here based on that reason. Cats are nice but our local dealer likes big operators and the gas industry folks more than the little guy out logging.

[Okrafarmer]

If you have plenty of money/credit, you can buy one new, in which case I'm no expert on the brand new stuff, but I've been under the assumption you'll be buying a used machine.  Since you live in West Virginia, you want a crawler with wide-spread tracks. The same model would be sold as either a narrow machine or a wide machine. Since it's hard to find even ten square feet of ground in West Virginia that isn't tipped on it's side, you want the wide-spread crawler for better stability. Most every manufacturer made their machines in both wide and narrow versions.

[sealark37]

If you are considering track loaders and dozers, you should keep in mind that a dozer is designed to deliver 90+% of it's power through the tracks, while a loader is designed to deliver 85% through it's hydraulics, and 15% through the tracks.  Regards, Clark

[lumberjack48]

I ran a Case out west in the Rockey's, i can't remember what size it was. It was fun to operate, the two levers in front of you controlled, speed, turning and reverse, it would turn around in it tracks. It had the winch mounded on the back, no arch. The problem besides being slow, if going up to steep of ground the Hydrostatic would lose oil pressure, down the hill backwards you'd go. It was lucky nobody got hurt.
If you can put road in as you go to keep your skid down to 300 yards a cat might be all right. When you start skidding across a 40 it takes the toll on you and the Doser.  :(

[MapleNut]

I have a International TD8E. I used it on hillsides in winter to pull maple up/down to level ground. It worked very well-tho not as fast as my Iron Mule-far more stable. I had to P&B tracks, new sprockets, and some rollers, when I got it, but the price was right. I think I got more "bang" for my buck buying this older International  than I would on a CAT or JD.

[snowstorm]

you dont want wide track shoes in the woods. they put way more strain on the track chain. also should have mud releif holes in the shoes track pads or whatever you want to call them

[tractormanNwv]

A lot of good machines out there, but as a personal choice I think the CASE 850G long track that I use to run with the 6cyl cummins was about the finest machine I ever ran here in the hills of West Virginia, the company I work for now has a CAT D4C....no comparison, but still a good machine. The older John Deere 350 and 450's were good machines but bad about the frames cracking if you really did a lot of serious winch work and did'nt keep up on your maintenance.

Jim

[Okrafarmer]

you dont want wide track shoes in the woods. they put way more strain on the track chain. also should have mud releif holes in the shoes track pads or whatever you want to call them

Just to clarify, I did not mean wide track shoes. I mean a wide-stance track frame system. Ideally you would put narrow shoes on a wide-track chassis for mountain work. Be sure to have tall grouser bars on your track as that is your traction and you will need it if you are going up and down hills.

[Meadows Miller]

Im thinking along the lines of the 350JD as i have seen some pretty strait low hour ones with good track gear about ;) Whats the lift capacity on those roughly dose anyone know ?? I have tried to google it but it comes up with the 350 Dozer specs

Dad had Hi flotation 18" wide pads on his 450Sev Kato Shovel logger but they only broke the track on one side once that I can remember and that was on the last job he did with it when his offsider drove it over a stump just the wrong way to stuff it  ;) as they had it for about 5to6yrs so it would have handled about 50 to 60000+ton of logs and the rest of the work they use to do with it which was loading bark/shavings out of bulk piles and  loading bundles of posts and the machine had done a fair bit of work before then too as it was a used shovel and they converted it to logger  ;)

Regards Chis

[BOBWOOD]

Deere specs state:
3/4 yard heavy digging bucket or 1 1/4 yard light duty bucket
Breakout force 12,100 lbs.
SAE loader max tipping load - 7,150 lbs.

That's for a 350C loader.

The first 350 loader is a bit less and states a 9000 lb. breakout force
and a 4000 lb. capacity when loader is at full height.

A 350B with a Drott bucket is rated with an 8,800 lb. breakout force and a 7,600 lb. max load at full height

Hope you got my PM...I found this on the other site I mentioned...
I looked at some 350s but decided to go with 450 instead...there seems to be a weak point in the reverser housing on those...but I think they are good...just have to keep it tight...and most old machines have worked loose over time. BOB

[Meadows Miller]

Thanks Bob sorry I have not Pm'd you back as I have been running around like a loon trying to get everything finished up n done n dusted here  ;) Thanks for the specs thats plenty of lifting capacity Mate  ;)

[John Woodworth]

Cats over skidders have there time and place, in general for all purpose yarding your better off with a skidder, cats are high maintaice and expensive to operate. Unless you have wood that bog or in that volume to warrent using them.
As far as machines go of course Catipiller is the best but you pay for the paint but International is second best and a lot cheaper both in purchase and maintaince.

[Okrafarmer]

Be careful with the International dozers, certain models had problems. Also the company was absorbed-- they haven't made ones called International now for-- what, 25 years? The line went on as Dresser, and I believe merged with Komatsu. I suppose you can get parts for some of them through Komatsu. My dad had two different International TD-6 crawlers, and had a lot of trouble with them. Too bad, because they are a handy little size. Similar size to a Cat D-2 or John Deere 350. I've heard the T-9 / TD-9 were more reliable than the T-6 / TD-6. Later there were TD-7's, TD-8's, and so on. They kept changing their model numbers around. Earliest "series" of T-tractors were the T-20, T-35, and T-40, with the diesel variants TD-40 and maybe TD-35 coming out a little later, that was in the 1930's. Then came the T-6 / TD-6, T-9 / TD-9, T-14 /TD-14, and TD-18, around 1940, and the TD-24 was introduced around 1947 to round out the line. The 6's were about D-2 size, 9's were about D-4 size, 14's were about D-6 size, TD-18 was D-7 size, and TD-24 was roughly D-8 size. Later they changed numbers, with TD-7, TD-12, TD-15, TD-20, TD-25. Eventually I think they made a TD-40 that was roughly D-9 size or bigger. Hard to keep track of all the changes. Every company, even Caterpillar, has messed around with their designations so much it is hard to keep track of. John Deere did pretty well with their 350 / 450 / 550 / 650 / 750 / 850 / 1050 numbers, but eventually they switched to a 400 / 700, and so on. If you really want to wade through a bunch of difficult model numbers and letters, go back and try to reconstruct the Cletrac line from 1916 to 1944 and on through the Oliver takeover and demise through 1965. Those models are really hard to keep track of. They were fairly reliable, though. A lot of Celtrac HG's and Oliver OC-3's are still at work in places where other tractors can't get. But those models only weigh around 3,000 lbs. They were the skid-steers and compact utility tractors of their day.

[Taylortractornut]

IHC was bought by Komatsu then sold to Dresser then Dresser sold to   HSW    Huta Stalowa Wola and formed Dressta and  now Luigong  of China bought out   HSW Dressta.

[BOBWOOD]

It's interesting to find out about all those brands/models etc... I've often wondered about all of those things...sad to hear about China entering the picture once again...not that I'm racist against any people...it's just that....I'm American at heart and I hate to see what is happening in the world today. BOB

[Taylortractornut]

Luigong is trying to get its foot in the door here.  THey already sell loaders here.     I just hate to see a brand like Dressta  go away.   They made some nice smooth dozers, I think they were the first to go to pilot controls for hte blade.       THere dealer support was  bad in this area one Komatsu dealer  dealt them.   THats what did IH dozers in also was dealer support.       


Luigong got into trouble on year selling a  clone of a JD backhoe.   It was an identicale match to the 310 and 410.      They wil ltake the  HSW dresser designs and put their name on them  of keep the name and  use the dealer network to sell their crap.

[hackberry jake]

My dad bought 100 acre plot close to where I live. He bought a smaller Komatsu dozer with the pyrimid tracks. We have been using it to make new roads and open up old roads on his land. I believe it's a Komatsu D20P-6. Everything works excellent on it, but I wish it had the grouser pads for the terrain we are on (Ozark mountains). It seems to get better grip if the ground is saturated, go figure. We have'nt tried logging with it yet.

[snowstorm]

they are swamp pads.     it was ih to dresser to komatsu.   ih went bankrupt farm sold to case   const to dresser.  forestry droped ....trucks navistar

[Taylortractornut]

Sorry I miss typed the  Dresser Komatsu   timeline.     I have been working on a Dresser grader today and had a parts run around with  them.   Komatsu,Dressta,GallionVolvo finally got the parts.       

[snowstorm]

Sorry I miss typed the  Dresser Komatsu   timeline.     I have been working on a Dresser grader today and had a parts run around with  them.   Komatsu,Dressta,GallionVolvo finally got the parts.     

how are they on getting parts? komatsu also bought valmet a few yrs ago. so they have had anything i have needed within a couple days

[Taylortractornut]

Dressta had a dealer  at one of the local Komatsu  parts places near by and always kept a dozer for sale.     I dont know since   Luigong has them, but from a friend that works for a dealer Komatsu will be dropping them.     IHC Dresser   machinces were some slick units.    Dad spread 21 000 tons of stone  in a plant one time with a TD7 dresser.   Did tons of finishing with it to.