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Underwater Logging

Started by Weekend_Sawyer, February 16, 2004, 06:42:54 PM

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Ron Scott

~Ron

beenthere

Amazing how jealous people can get when another figures out a way to "salvage" something. WI went through the same game with the underwater logging in Lake Superior.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Scott

~Ron

zopi

Where ya gonna get SCUBA for de mules?
Got Wood?
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And lots of junk.

Ron Scott

House Rejects Deadhead Logging

Georgia Public Broadcasting (March 28) - House lawmakers have rejected a proposal that would allow people to profit by pulling logs sunken in Georgia's rivers.

The House of Representatives voted 67-93 to reject the legislation from Senate President Pro Tempore Tommie Williams.

His plan would have allowed the mining of deadhead logs, or logs that sunk when they were floated down the river so they could be sold a century ago or more. Supporters of the bill said the timber is highly prized and that the industry would create jobs.

Environmental groups argued that removing the logs could harm rivers, destroy underwater habitats, and stir up pollutants and toxins now trapped on river bottoms.

The E-Forester
~Ron

Jeff

I lean towards agreeing with that decision. I think that removal of logs that have been in a river for that long that have become part of the habitat and destruction of that habitat in the name of creating jobs or inventing income isn't a fair trade off.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WDH

After seeing the yahoos that salvage the sinker logs on Ax Men, I tend to agree.  The logs are better left alone.
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colinofthewoods

I'm a little confused on the whole under water salvage operation.  is a sunken old growth better than standing old growth ,,  timber quality wise ?

WDH

Being in the water in the absence of oxygen causes some reduction reactions in the wood that change the color, making it beautiful and unique.  The wood itself is not affected.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

semologger

My uncle has around a 60 acre lake. He put in 40 years ago. On one end is nothing but good tie size oak trees stumps and all they just dozed over. Then they Danged it up. The trees are in around 10 feet of water you can see them plain as day. I wonder if those tree would be worth anything.

asca65290

Does anyone know of any underwater log salvage operations in the Midwest, particularly around Illinois?  I'm wondering if other species beside your standard pine or cypress are possibilities for removal, such as Silver Maple (aka, soft maple), Cottonwood or Black Walnut.

Ron Scott

There have been salvage operations in Michigan and Wisconsin. Some areas of the Great Lakes are currently being looked at by underwater salvagers. The Michigan legislature has also been looking at its log salvage permitting system for possible ease of permitting.
~Ron

asca65290

Yes, but they have a lot of conifers up there and I'm wondering more about other species like Soft (Silver) Maple, Cottonwood and certain hardwoods like Black Walnut and even possibly oak.

ArborJake

 I have a neighbor with a large pond made in the sixties. He told me there is a lot of cherry and maple in it . Would they be worth anything yet or do they need to be under water longer than 40 yrs?
thick and thin lumber company. qaulity manufacturer of saw dust and slab wood.

Jeff

I think you need to start out with old growth logs for there to be value. Most all the last of the old growth hardwoods was cut off in the first part of the last century. Cottonwood I'd think would be worthless. Its pretty hard to market any cottonwood.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

ive always wonderd if you put a log in private pond, how long would it take for the change in colors.

also,  if you put a log in a lake that has a lot of silt (burrying the log) how long it would take,  and even if you chained it,  would it still be yours, or considered "polution"

Ron Scott

Many of the "sinkers" in the Great Lakes were the denser hardwoods and not a lot of the white pine as people might think. Many were the northern hardwoods, sugar maple, black cherry, yellow birch, American beech, etc.

Much of the wood discoloration is due to the wood species and the various minerals in the water. Waters with a lot of iron will turn maples to a grey pastle color.

I'm sure that you would need a state permit to add woody debris in the form of chained sunken logs in any public waters. Then you would need another permit to remove them. ;) An environmental assessment would be needed to cover the site specific situation.

~Ron

Bayou Boy

   Well guys I'm new to the forum and have just started dead head logging her in Mississippi about a month ago. Many of the rivers creeks and horse shoe lakes are full of logs. Some are easy to get at and others aren't. I've only sold a few logs so far, I'm still looking for buyers. The logs are a mix of axe cut and dead fall cypress, pine and oak.
   I first started by contacting my Department of Forestry who told me they couldn't find anything about dead head logging. So they put me in touch with the MS Attorneys Generals Office who looked in to it and found no laws against it. He did warn me about ownership rights and water quality impacts. So I contacted the MS Dept. of Environmental Quality who said they had no laws against it and could see no water quality issues, if I were only pulling the logs out by boat and winch. They also informed me that no license or permits were required. My next step was to check into ownership rights. Mississippi has a law about public water ways. The laws say basically that a public water way and everything in it cannot be owned by a land owner who's land boarders or who's land surrounds a public water way. Now it goes on to say that a public water way, is a water way that is navigational and to be considered navigational it must have at least 100 cubic feet of water flow a second. No land can be crossed to gain access to said water ways without the land owners consent. You must navigate to it by water and stay within the normal banks of the water way. That is when the water is at its normal heights and not at flood stage. Natural made lakes like horse shoe lakes are considered public water ways scene they were part of a rivers natural course. Natural I must use reasonable care that my actions cause no harm to any person or private property.
   It's funny how every state can be so different. I guess when enough people start dead head logging here in Mississippi the state will not miss the opportunity to license it so they can make money from it.
Do on to others as you would have them do on to you!

Ron Scott

QuoteIt's funny how every state can be so different. I guess when enough people start dead head logging here in Mississippi the state will not miss the opportunity to license it so they can make money from it.

That's what usually happens. ;)
~Ron

sandhills

Welcome to the forum Bayou Boy, think I'd try to stay as far under the radar as possible for as long as possible on this one if I were you  ;).

Woodchuck53

Welcome Bayou Boy. You'll like it here. We like pictures of most any thing our members get into. Are you a weekend type of woodsman or work in the industry full time? What sort of mill do you have or aspire to own? We have all kinds here. Enjoy and stay safe. Chuck
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thecfarm

Bayou Boy,welcome to the forum. Maine is real fussy on their water ways when you start to stir up the bottom. Good luck. Been around the wod industry long?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ron Scott

~Ron

Lucky Dog

Hey! I am new and super interested in underwater logging. Does anyone know of any crews working in the rocky mountain area?

fishpharmer

No info for you.  Welcome to FF. 
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