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the taking down of a large cottonwood? 5-6 footer

Started by shelbycharger400, February 28, 2012, 09:02:12 PM

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shelbycharger400

I have a haunting task in the near future of taking down a 5-6 ft diameter cottonwood.. (octapus)    i have chains and 3/8 cables.  I will have the farmer with a big tractor handy.   biggest shortfall i have right now is biggest saw is a 630 johny,  that will only hold a 28 inch bar.   tree is scheduled to "land"  this fall.  i have never done climbing,  other than hangin on for dear life at the top of a 40 ft extension ladder, swinging in the wind.     2 large branches start around 50 ft mark,  look to be 24 in dia.       hopefully this summer firewood sales will be good to buy a big saw.
i have ran a buddys 075? stihl with a 3 ft bar,  Anyone here  drop a monster?   info appreciated

clif

The only trees my brother and I were allowed to cut down when we were growing up were the cottonwoods.  The only saw we had was a 5-6' crosscut saw and a double bit axe.  We were about 10-12 years old, we were small, but quite wiry.  The other condition was we had to get it to the house so dad could cut it up into firewood with the buzz saw.  We had an old F12 Farmall that dad said we could drive by ourself if we could start it ( crank, magneto, etc ).  We had located an old cottonwood by the creek on the back forty and I am sure it was four and a half feet in diameter may be bigger, we did not know how we would get it home and we knew dad would not let us waste it.  I spent several hours for a lot of days cranking it.  It was just out side the back kitchen door and I could here mom saying "I don't think it is a good idea for him to drive that by himself" and dad would say " don't worry he will never get it started"  It had a tin can over the exhaust pipe that would fire up in the air when it fired up.  My brother was in the house and I was out cranking on it and Kapow there goes the can in the air and I threw my hat on the ground and was doing a little jig around it and dad was standing at the door going "ut oh".  The next day, my brother and I started sawing on that old cottonwood and it probably took us the better part of a week to get it cut down.  Saturday came and we started up the F-12 and mom told dad that he better go see what we were up to. He followed us to the back forty and kept saying " I don't know how you kids got that tree cut down." I guess he figured we were determined and he helped us cut it up and get it back to the house.  To this day there just isn't any room for "give up" in my brother or I.
Mighty Myte Mark IV Band Saw Mill .  " Don't let the past hold you back"

westyswoods

Not to sound preachy here although this may be a job for someone with more experience than what you appear to have.

The big question is, can this tree be felled with no concern for damaging property? If it needs to be limbed out hire someone who can climb. Example being just last week my climber almost bit the big one. John was trimming out an oak double tied in and his first anchor (branch 3" diameter) gave way. Looked healthy outside but way rotten inside. He took about a ten foot ride and was caught be second tie in. He also was wearing all protective clothing and gear.

To buy a new bar and chain just for one tree may not be the best investment. Best to find someone with equipment and skill sets to help you. Short term cost may very well be much less expensive than long term effect.

Good luck with it. Be safe first and foremost.

Westy
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

shinnlinger

Agree with west y...  Hire a pro to put tree on ground and buck up.  You have time to get quotes.
Dave
PS pics would be nice
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

MJD

1st  do not try cutting off a ladder, never turns out good. You can cut a 5 ft. DIA. tree with a 20" bar, larger than normal notch, bore cut the center of the notch and work around the tree. But if you are not experienced in doing so find someone who is, play safe.

shelbycharger400

i plan on using the 28 inch bar takin down a few hundred red cedars so no problem their.  another job i was working on last year still has 4 or 5 cords left to cut, several large trees their yet as well. its in the flood plane at a neighbors house.
the largest tree i have ever taken down was a 30 to 36 in dia boxelder.. that was topped, with a 16inch bar (my 20 inch saw wouldnt run) but before that was 28 inch plus oaks.    as far as dropping the tree,  nothing in the area that will be of concern, its in  a treeline in a field that is comming down. 

Corley5

An open grown tree is more dangerous to fall than one that has grown in woods.  They can roll, kick back and do any number of unpredictable things when that big top contacts the ground
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Jeff

Tammy's mother has one that needs to come down, but I'd never tackle it. Its close to wires and buildings. and looks bigger in person than it does in this picture. Besides that, if I did get it down, then her step dad would want me to saw it up on the lt30. Yikes.


 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

i was planning on building a mill with a 48 " bar after i sorted out the issues with my small mill.   well, i might have to plan a bigger mill plan.

reride82

How much wind do you have in MN? The biggest cottonwood I have felled was a 50" and we limbed it back to the trunk(Boulevard tree when I worked for the city during summers in my high school and college years) and the trunk was still 40' tall. It rattled houses for three blocks when it hit the pavement  :) We were always dealing with wind in North Central Montana(operating a bucket truck in windy conditions can be a pain when the tree sways at a different pace than the bucket  ::) ) but with planning wind can be your friend as long as it is consistent  :D Our wind was mostly out of the west-southwest so you always tried to fell a tree towards the east. Does the tree have a heavy side? Most of those bigger cottonwoods have a heavy side from losing a bigger branch and they hardly ever grow straight   :-\ So try to fell the tree towards the heavy side. If you have enough time, remove all the trees around it within fall distance so you don't have to deal with any hang ups that will make limbing and bucking a nightmare. Ex. 100' tree remove everything for at least a 100' radius around tree(keep this area clean for a safe retreat as well). Pick your direction of fall, climb and attach your cable and make sure you have more cable than the height of the tree and I usually add 50% because my estimates aren't always right and keep that tractor and operator at a safe distance. You can carve away with that 28" bar, but I would suggest a bigger saw and bar-you never turn down the opportunity for another saw  ;) I would suggest at least a 36" but I used a 48" bar for felling those big Cottonwoods  ;D And be prepared for a alot of water to come out of that cut, I even had a few stumps that had a little fountain after the tree had fallen  :o
'Do it once, do it right'

'First we shape our buildings, then our buildings shape us'
Living life on the Continental Divide in Montana

Bogue Chitto

Quote from: clif on February 28, 2012, 10:03:44 PM
The only trees my brother and I were allowed to cut down when we were growing up were the cottonwoods.  The only saw we had was a 5-6' crosscut saw and a double bit axe.  We were about 10-12 years old, we were small, but quite wiry.  The other condition was we had to get it to the house so dad could cut it up into firewood with the buzz saw.  We had an old F12 Farmall that dad said we could drive by ourself if we could start it ( crank, magneto, etc ).  We had located an old cottonwood by the creek on the back forty and I am sure it was four and a half feet in diameter may be bigger, we did not know how we would get it home and we knew dad would not let us waste it.  I spent several hours for a lot of days cranking it.  It was just out side the back kitchen door and I could here mom saying "I don't think it is a good idea for him to drive that by himself" and dad would say " don't worry he will never get it started"  It had a tin can over the exhaust pipe that would fire up in the air when it fired up.  My brother was in the house and I was out cranking on it and Kapow there goes the can in the air and I threw my hat on the ground and was doing a little jig around it and dad was standing at the door going "ut oh".  The next day, my brother and I started sawing on that old cottonwood and it probably took us the better part of a week to get it cut down.  Saturday came and we started up the F-12 and mom told dad that he better go see what we were up to. He followed us to the back forty and kept saying " I don't know how you kids got that tree cut down." I guess he figured we were determined and he helped us cut it up and get it back to the house.  To this day there just isn't any room for "give up" in my brother or I.
Like your story Clif. It reminds me of my sons.

bill m

I did one that size for another tree service about 10 years ago. His bucket truck was not tall enough but mine was. It till took almost 2 full days to piece it out. The biggest one I have done was about 7 feet in dia. The power co. had been gradually making it smaller over the years and when it died the town had me finish it. Next week I have to take one down for a friend, it is about 4 feet dia.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Silver_Eagle

Keep in mind that most log cutter's/timber faller's get killed within 5 feet of the stump. From falling limb's, rotten tree's when falling fold back over the stump due to air resistance, landing on limb's, ridge's and kicking back over the stump.

You will have to cut some of the heart out of the tree after making your face cut, then just ring around the back cut leaving your holding wood as on a smaller tree. Just make double sure your back cut is level and don't cut your two corner's of holding wood clear off so the tree spin's on you.

Keep an eye on the wood chip's when cutting the heart out of the tree to make sure the center is sound, if the tree has a good lean a rotten heart can get hairy quick.

Here is a link to youtube where you can see some bigger timber where they are cutting the heart out and leaving the holding wood on the corner's and NOT cutting if off.

Link to Youtube search

I cut a 12'6 red cedar out of Ketchikan Alaska one winter when we worked up there from being snowed out at home, I didn't see it hit the ground, why? I was running off when she popped off the stump finally lol.  :D :D  smiley_horseridersmiley_horserider

Kevin

I don't work with chains or cables so I'd get a rope in the top of it, cut it backing the felling cut up with wedges and get the farmer to pull it over when you're ready.
Keep the hinge reward to make it easier to pull over.

Okrafarmer

Still safest to have an experienced climber top it all out, mainly to make it safer when you do cut the bottom trunk. A tree that big can seriously lose some branches, dead, or otherwise, when falling, and the limbs can make it turn or bounce unpredictably when it hits, even bounce backward toward you. Definitely wear your hard hat while cutting it, and when it starts to go, you get far far away quick in the opposite direction. I had a 12" cherry tree catch me in the chest one time and throw me ten feet. Thankfully, it only hurt for a couple days.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

brendonv

Crane, did this one Tuesday with a 90 ton.  Abot 5' DBH, 120' tall.   :D

Not economical I'm sure, just joking really.  Have an arborist wreck the top, then tip over the log.

"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

shelbycharger400

bout what is the going rate to top a monster?   i know.. im tryin to get a picture... havent made it up to the farm again yet.

Okrafarmer

Not sure for your area, but if you check around, be sure to emphasize to the climber that they may let the limbs fall where they may, and no cleanup whatsoever required by them, and no buildings to worry about hitting. They should charge less to do this in a field than in town.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Jemclimber

If you're going to pay someone he'll probably just show up with one of his bigger saws and drop it. Especially if it can be felled in whatever direction has the weight. Cost should be small. I've dropped plenty of big cottonwoods with back lean or side lean with the appropriate rope and anchor point. I personally know I wouldn't climb it if I could drop it. That would be like lowering every branch  just to practice lowering??  The one I'm in at the left is about that size, but had to be lowered into a 20 X 25 landing zone because it was between 2 boat houses.  No clean up makes it quick and price is usually according to time for me.  Good luck, and stay safe.
lt15

colinofthewoods

If I were you , I'd just go ahead ahead and tip it over.  Its not the politically correct thing to say. But if it doesn't matter which way you fall it , and you are careful with your cuts your risks are minimal. 

I would put a line on it first ,  just in case.
take your time making a nice clean undercut - no dutchman.
line up you back cut properly
leave a nice fat hinge.
use your wedges
have a good escape route.
If it won't go over with wedges , then you have your line for backup.
just don't cut your hinge !

The only way to get experiece with bigger wood is by watching and doing.
It sounds like a low risk situation you have. Just take your time with your cuts.

If you set it up right , you should be able to get well out of the when it tips over.

no guts no glory

don't forget to add a pic when its all said and done

lumberjack48

Notch it the way its leaning or on the heavy side, mark your back cut all the way around the tree. Take a good look up at it, start sawing on the side that looks a little heavier, walk right around with your saw, making sure the cut is reaching your notch cut. Keep an eye up at it, when it starts to tip, finish your cut, still keeping an eye on it, as soon as you see its falling the right way, clear the stump area by 20' or so, turn and watch for limbs and ect, or just in case you have to move again. Every tree was its own mind, I've seen strange things happen.
Take your time, put everything together right, you'll have no problems, cut her down.   8)
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Axe Handle Hound

The actual diameter of the tree may be the least of your real concerns.  I cut down a very large dead red elm for a guy last year, probably 36" in diameter on the stump or larger with a massive crown.  I studied it long and hard before making my wedge cut, made my back cut, and the tree tipped exactly where I wanted it to.  That's when the problems started.  I had assumed, incorrectly, that the dead branches would break when it hit the ground.  Instead, it was as if I'd tipped over a muffin with a large top.  It just stood on the tips of the branches.  That meant I had to cut off the upper branches to reduce the weight on the branches holding it up and then cut off the branches holding it up so the trunk could finally bottom out.  Meanwhile, the trunk rolled to the left and right, dropped suddenly, shifted and groaned...you name it.  Nothing about the process went according to plan except for the initial wedge and back cut and I was nervous the entire time.  I will not be making that mistake again. 

beenthere

QuoteI will not be making that mistake again. 

And the mistake was ??
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Axe Handle Hound

Quote from: beenthere on March 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
QuoteI will not be making that mistake again. 

And the mistake was ??

Essentially, attempting to cut down a tree I wasn't equipped properly for.  Large trees with large canopies are best left to people with the proper training and equipment to handle them.  When the branches held the trunk up off the ground it created a deadfall trap that I then had to work under. 

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Axe Handle Hound on March 06, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: beenthere on March 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
QuoteI will not be making that mistake again. 

And the mistake was ??

Essentially, attempting to cut down a tree I wasn't equipped properly for.  Large trees with large canopies are best left to people with the proper training and equipment to handle them.  When the branches held the trunk up off the ground it created a deadfall trap that I then had to work under.

Those are exactly the type of trees that it is best to have an experienced climber cut the limbs off from first, or use a crane. Be careful of all those muffin-shaped trees.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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