More and Less Productive Jobs

[Magicman]

Yup, some saw jobs are just less productive than others.  This past week's job sawing over 100, 8' logs only yielded 6200 bf.  You just can't make good production with a majority of 6"-10" dib logs and sawing 1X4's and 1X6's.  Those 60, mostly twelve foot 16"+ dib Cypress logs spoiled me a couple of weeks ago.

While I am not complaining because it still was a good week, it's just to point out to some of our new sawyers that saw jobs certainly are not equal even though you may very well put in as many hours sawing.


 
Over 100 mostly Poplar logs.

[rmack]

don't want to sound like a beginner, but what the heck... I am one.

what does 'dib' mean?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I was wondering where you been all week.
Lots of logs in the pic. At least Poplar saws pretty fast.

Sometimes on these small logs, we just have to smile and go with the flow. 

Because of size, did you mill by the hour?

[Shotgun]

dib is "diameter inside bark."

[Chuck White]

I know what you're saying Lynn, been there many times.

Whenever I have a cut-sheet for 4" 6" 10" etc, I'll usually (for example) saw out 1 x 10's, then put a bunch of them on the mill and cut at 6", then I have lots of 6" and 4" boards in one cut.

I would assume that you do that, albeit you've been milling longer than me!  ;D

I've been out getting my mill squared up for this years sawing season, can hardly wait.

[Magicman]

Because of size, did you mill by the hour? 

No, sometimes it's best to just let the "hide go with the hair".   

[terrifictimbersllc]

..... did you mill by the hour?

Just wanting to point out sometimes just milling moment by moment seems best.   : : :

Nothing about Magicman's logs above, but more about taking things in stride and judging it the next day.   Had a job yesterday where  somehow it took me 45 min extra to set up.  There was only one position where the mill could be set up and the truck kept slipping sideways down the hill next to two trees, till I finally got it right. Not something I'd charge the customer for. Happy to be home with nothing broken and not letting customer seeing any frustration.

[Magicman]

Exactly right.  Moment by moment is a good description.  There were 3 whacks at the above job, and I could have easily charged him 20 bucks to break the mill down and move to the next whack.

[Ga Mtn Man]

This is good stuff to know for those of us thinking of getting in to the business.  Thanks!

[beenthere]

dib is "diameter inside bark."

That would be good for the FF dictionary too.

[Magicman]

For the new member's benefit, the FF Dictionary is under "Extras" above, and there is a lot of good stuff hiding there.   

[customsawyer]

You also have to be careful what you wish for. I spent 6 days cutting in one customers location and had another customer bring some logs over to the site. Most of the logs were small dia. but I was still able to get a 21,500 bf out of them. I spent most of the time wishing I had some bigger logs.
I moved to the next job that had some decent cypress and pine logs to cut. There was 5 18' pine logs and the smallest one was 25" dia. at the small end. The customer wanted all 2X4 lumber. Needless to say handling some of those 2X24" slabs to cut them down to 2X4 requires some extra work. I had to laugh at myself because it had just been the day before that I was complaining about having to cut 6" dia. logs. ;D I was able to cut 5,000 bf out of the pine and cypress on that job so all in all it was a good 8 days.

[rmack]

For the new member's benefit, the FF Dictionary is under "Extras" above, and there is a lot of good stuff hiding there.   

now we're loggin'  8)

thanks guys.

[WDH]

I have a "high" production job coming up.  I will have to take a picture of the "log" pile  .

[Holmes]

I have a "high" production job coming up.  I will have to take a picture of the "log" pile  .

Is that "the" log pile?

[Peter Drouin]

I guess we all run our companies different :D. moment to moment I have cut up small logs too but no more, 1 or 2 10" top end is ok but thats it , by the BF  theres no money in it for me, and we all know the work is hard :D so what I do if the customer has 10" and smaller logs its by the hr , or they can get some one else :D. I feel with the price of things I cant work for less. I mean the customer dont care if it takes you all day to cut his 20 logs, he just wants his wood. so im very polite and say no. a customer came to see me today, and has 12" and biger top end logs. he wants1" and 6x6 , all by the BF and thats ok ,but he wants to pay less for the 6x6s. by the BF you know less cuts :D Im polite and say no its all the same. BF is BF I have to lift them off the mill its all work. so maybe my thinking is all  wrong but most customers dont care if you have to role the log up hill to the mill or work in water or have your truck slide in a tree or cut in a log you know is full of ants, ill cut it with the chain saw and toss it to the side, i wont put it on the mill.I have done this tooooooo long :D :D   so I do my best to stay a way the moment to moment :D :D ;D

[WDH]

Is that "the" log pile?

Well, at one time it was one log  .

[customsawyer]

Peter I am going say that if you look at the fact that I averaged over 3000 bf per day for 6 days cutting the small dia. logs with 90% of it being 1 by lumber. If I can't make a decent living on 3000+ bf per day on a portable job including the time to set up and break down then I need to raise my price per bf. I will admit that 3000 bf a day is not that great in a stationary mill setup but in portable sawing it isn't to bad. I am not putting down what you said just sharing a different perspective on it.

[Magicman]

I was comparing the vast differences between two "over 100 miles away" portable jobs.  One where I averaged well over 2500 bf per day and this one where I barely averaged 1500 bf.  Both were good jobs.  As Jake pointed out above, I do not have his higher production sawmill but likewise, I can manage very well with this 1500 bf per day job.  That prorates out to over $90K gross annually.

[Cedarman]

Our average log size is 7" to 8".  We saw a lot 5", even some 4" that get slabbed to a rough 3 1/2 x 3 1/2.  We just use a different mill than you guys do.  End dogging band scragg.  Our margins are a lot higher than custom sawing too.

Doyle scale penalizes loggers that sell small logs compared to large logs.
I would think a sliding scale of board foot prices based on log diameter might be in order.  Say 50 cents for lumber out of a 10" log versus 30 or 35 cents for lumber out of a 17" log.  Just an idea.
I used to custom cut 30 years ago for 15 cents, so I know the issues you custom cutters face.

[cypresskayaksllc]

I think the more logs I see the more of a log snob I become. Logs I would have been more than willing to get lumber out of a few years ago- I complain about now. Too small, too big, too gnarly, too long, too short, too rotten, too hard. Especially after I saw some nice logs like cypress logs

[Magicman]

I had a little time to ask this last customer "why he chose to use me to saw his logs"?   Of course, I do know that most sawyers charge more for sawing 1" lumber and I had decided from the start, which was over 10 years ago, that my rates would be flat.   His answer surprised me because I really am not concerned how other sawyers base their rates.  He said,  "because I was the only one out of three sawyers that stated that my bf rates were flat regardless of the thickness of the lumber or the size of the logs".

Unlike cypresskayaksllc, I have become less of a snob.   Small, crooked, rotten, no matter.  Throw that sucker up there and I'll show it who is boss.   ;D :D

[Peter Drouin]

Well I guess im a log snob then, because I dont cut rotten logs and then charge for rotten wood. my customers look to me for advice on what to cut and what not to for the best lumber .I mean rotten and crooked logs makes rotten and crooked lumber. I want my customers happy to work with my lumber. and my rates are flat. I just dont waste my time or my customers time just to make a buck :)Customsawyer not bad at 3000' a day you must have some help :D and I bet you cut 2 or 3 small logs at the same time too :D :D  good job

[Tree Feller]

I frequently carry logs to a sawyer to have them sawn. He has a flat rate but it is different for softwoods and hardwoods. The size of the logs does not matter nor does the rate change with dimension. I've hauled him 25" dib Pine and 8" dib Cedar as well as 8" - 30" dib Walnut. He cheerfully saws it all and always thanks me for the business.

Personally, I would not do business with a sawyer that charged by the hour.

[Woodchuck53]

And at the end of the year Mr. Lynn that's not bad. You sleep in your own bed everynight and hold the one love. That and the independence to do it is worth a whole lot in my book.

I've always been involved with flat rate, off bearer help or not and made my bills. May be a little more tired at the end of the day but the people I work with know me and trust what I do. Now I'm able to own a few labor saving tools.

Of course 30 years ago $50.00 was a good rate.